Snipers in Iraq

WashTimes ^ | 10 FEB 2007 | Bill Gertz and Rowan Scarborough

[radar101]

U.S. intelligence agencies have built their own version of the famous Russian-designed AK-47 assault rifle for use by American snipers in Iraq. The snipers are firing at one form of deadly insurgent and terrorist attack, the so-called "spray and pray" method used by those who try to sow terror by emerging from hiding and firing a machine gun randomly into crowds. The special U.S. snipers have used .50-caliber long-range rifles for killing terrorists. Now, they are using the modified AK-47s to kill insurgents without a normal shot to the head. Instead, snipers are killing insurgents with shots to the heart, and creating dissension and doubt in the groups over who is behind the sniping. The 7.62 mm round used by the AK-47 differs from the 7.62 mm sniper round used in normal U.S. sniper ammunition and creates a different wound.

[mad_as_he$$]

The AK is inaccurate at over 300 yards because of design. Give me a accurized M-16 any day. The Military channel runs a show pitting the M-16 against the AK in equal footings. AK wins of bullet ballistics but the M-16 kicks it in accuracy.

Remember that we were the spray and pray guys of Nam. Don't remember the exact number but it was in the thousands per kill. Spooky's alone fired over 9,000,000 rounds and there was only about 35 or so of them in action.

[GLH3IL]

He's exposing a weapon we are using against our enemy, that is likely already aware of the fact that we are using it. Honestly, our special forces has long made use of the AK-47 and it's endless variations, this is hardly classified information. Perhaps this article is intended to be read by our adversaries so as to heighten their confusion about exactly who is firing those shots. I must admit, it would be a pretty obvious indicator as to who the sniper is working for when a bad guy's head is turned to a fine pink mist by a .50 round....

[IronJack]

This is coming from the Washington Times, guys. Harldy a bastion of liberalism.

The release of this information may actually prove beneficial. If it causes the ragheads to wonder about where the shot came from, knowing that this is not an unheard-of practice, then it accomplished exactly what it set out to do.

[Condor51]

****A Dragunov makes better sense than an SKS. By all accounts, they are wonderful sniper rifles. I once held a Dragunov in my hands (but never fired it) and it appeared to be an evolution based wholly on the AK-47.***

I agree. But the Dragunov is chambered in 7.62x54R. Since the article mentioned the AK round (7.62x39) I went from there.

Sweeeeeeet!!

[OKSooner]

I think you're right. Gertz is one of the good guys, but that doesn't necessarily mean he knows jack about firearms. Either he got mixed up on the 7.62 thing, or he's providing "dubious" information to the enemy that "we're using your own weapons against you."

Couldn't speculate towards why in the latter case.

[org.whodat]

I think they are using the 7.62 x 54 round used in the Dragunov.

You must have skipped over the part where they said using readly available American ammo.

[LeGrande]

The 7.62 mm round used by the AK-47 differs from the 7.62 mm sniper round used in normal U.S. sniper ammunition and creates a different wound.

How can the same diameter bullet produce a different wound? Velocity, range, and the locations the bullets hit are going to vary wildly. I would seriously doubt that without a proper autopsy that they could tell the difference between any bullet in that size range. And they would definitely need the bullet,

[org.whodat]

They ought to be using the 416 Barrett round for sniping.

Why, they already us the 300 win mag for an intermediate round between the 308 and the fifty. The cost of new weapon and new inventory would be a waste of money.

[BluH2o]

The agency is trying to reinvigorate its human spying capability, which officials say was gutted after a policy shift in favor of electronic and technical spying during the 1970s and budget cuts during the 1990s.

The era that the author is referring to in the 1970's was the Jimmy Carter years, the head of the CIA at the time was Stansfield Turner. The 1990's brought us the Clinton's ... nothing more needs to be said.

[CPOSharky]

Now, they are using the modified AK-47s...

Seems to me that this means our armorors have have accurized some AK-47s for this purpose. For urban use a 300 yard maximum range is plenty.

[b4its2late]

I believe the head shots are best. Blows the diaper right off with it.

[Sender]

The Soviet Dragunov and its copies used for sniping use the old rimmed 7.62x54R cartridge from the Moisin-Nagant. It is a very powerful round, bigger than the 308. Most of the ammo for it is steel core so it just zips on through without expanding, but it can tumble and do lots of damage.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Any semi-autos are poor choices for sniper rifles.

Too much accuracy is lost in the inconsistent feeding and poor chamber alignment that semi's are known for.

Most long range sniper rifles are highly refined bolt actions that have been tuned to great levels of close tollerances.

I prefer the M-40A1. (A target version of the Remington 700 BDL) It was capable of consistent 2 inch average groups at 500 meters.

Atmospheric conditions oftentimes dictated the performance and results varied. But for the most part no semi-auto could even come close to the accuracy of such a weapon.

[VOA]

bump

[TET1968]

Correction,Washington Post is the rag.

[tcostell]

Now the 91/30 ... there is a sniper rifle. So simple even a Muslim could take care of it, and accurate as hell. Shame about the safety and weak scope though. Put an 8x scope on it and it would probably work well even today. And you can buy 50 of them with 10,000 rounds of ammo for about $5,000 US.

[ASOC]

The 7.62 x 51 bullet is .308 diameter and usually 168 grains in weight. The AK 47 round (7.62x39) is actually .311 in diameter and 122 or 123 grains in weight (same diameter as the Brit .303).

The 7.62 NATO even *sounds* different than the AK.

The most likely action is the US troops using AK type ammo --re-loaded for shot to shot repeatability with exacting bullet weight matching and exact powder loads, in a more accurate weapon - Like a Colt AR15 chambered for the combloc round.

The article gives no real details on the way this is done.

And dead bad guys is the bottom line. So now hadji is going to be looking over his shoulder.

[org.whodat]

rimmed 7.62x54R And did you are did you not read the statement that it used currently available us ammo??? The Russians have been making an AK style sportier chamber in 308 for about ten are so years now. They also have a similarly weapon chambered in 410 shotgun.

[org.whodat]

The most likely action is the US troops using AK type ammo --

Why don't you try reading the whole article.

I'm at a complete lose as to why you posted this info to me, I've been rolling my own ammo for over thirty years, I know a little bit about it.

[Sender]

I read the article and it says they are using modified AKs because it uses a round that is different from US ammo. That's the whole point...to fool them.