[quiverfull]

Toynbee studied 21 world civilizations that fell apart(not from another power). He found they all committed a certain kind of "cultural suicide" He identified certain characteristics: Abandon-accepting lawlessness; escapism-avoid problems by drifting into distraction and entertainment; Drift-personal efforts do not matter; Guilt-self abhorring that comes from sense of abandon; promiscuity-acceptance of anything and everything. It seems to me that most of Europe and a lot of Americans have these characteristics??

"the tribal cultures of North America[together compromising a primitive civilization]
Note to revisionist historian:
civilize - "to bring out of a savage or primitive state" I believe this began when the pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. When the pilgrims began making treaties and friendships with the local tribes, they began teaching them the Judeo Christian values of how to treat your neighbor. Perhaps everyone should read a true historical account of what really went on. Don't forget, the "tribal cultures" Indians fought, scalped, and ate each other. They were primitive, yes, and had been for hundreds of years, serving their gods of nature.(hence wearing little clothing - one with nature [culture is defined by "religion externalized"]

[GSlob]

Note to a revisionist sociologist:
For greater clarity, the life of society could be divided into three more or less autonomous areas [albeit they influence and penetrate one another]: 1. Economics; 2. Culture [everything man-made [excepting economics and sociology] in the life of that society - from national cuisine and architecture to arts, song, dance and pottery shards - the stuff of ethnologists and archaeologists. 3. Sociological [i.e. civilization proper] aspects - how that society exists and self-perpetuates as a sociologically distinct entity, i.e. how its members relate to one another and to their groups in socially important situations. Sociological aspects of "national character", value systems [weltanschauung] and dominant religions come right here. This is merely an elaboration of Huntington's thesis - he used the whole religion [and not only its sociological side] as a convenient marker. Such an elaboration is perfectly justified - Huntington did not split the Western Civ into Protestant civ[s] and a Catholic Civ, after all. Also, Israel [not a Christian country] is clearly a part of the Western Civ.

[T.L.Sink]

I essentially agree with you and to flippantly dismiss one of the most erudite multi-volume studies ever undertaken with a few glib one-liners isn't worthy of reply. Toynbee's "A Study of History" is universally recognized as a landmark in historiography. As the late Crane Brinton of Harvard put it, " Mr. Toynbee's study belongs ...with such works as those of ...St.Augustine, Vico, Buckle, and Spengler. It is philosophy of history, metaphysics, even theology, not narrative history."