Posted on 02/06/2007 10:43:27 AM PST by ElkGroveDan
“Murder and graffiti are two vastly different crimes,” Rudy Giuliani once said. “But they are part of the same continuum, and a climate that tolerates one is more likely to tolerate the other.”
Good point, Rudy.
Now, what about a climate — not to mention a Republican presidential candidate — that not only tolerates, but allows unelected judges to legalize the practice of delivering a child until only its head remains within its mothers womb so the child can be killed by sucking out its brains?
What about a climate where same-sex couples are given the same legal status as married couples, whether the resulting arrangements are candidly called “same-sex marriages,” or are semantically papered-over with terms such as “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships”?
Apply the Giuliani Continuum to fundamental issues such as marriage and the right to life, and where does it lead?
Not where conservatives want America to be.
Rudy Giuliani’s observation about the “continuum” running from graffiti to murder was quoted in a piece in the winter edition of City Journal by Steven Malanga. The title of Malanga’s piece neatly encapsulates his argument: “Yes, Rudy is a Conservative — and an electable one at that.”
I believe Malanga is wrong on both counts. Rudy is neither conservative, nor electable — at least, not as a Republican presidential candidate.
As Malanga seems to define it, a politician dedicated to good police work and free-market economics qualifies as a conservative. “Far from being a liberal,” Malanga writes of Giuliani, “he ran New York with a conservative’s priorities: government exists above all to keep people safe in their homes and in the streets, he said, not to redistribute income, run a welfare state, or perform social engineering. The private economy, not government, creates opportunity, he argued; government should just deliver basic services well and then get out of the private sector’s way.”
But that’s not enough. While advocating law and order, self-reliance, and capitalism is laudable, it does not entitle a politician to a free pass for advocating other causes that are deeply destructive of American society.
While it is always wrong to take an innocent human life — whether on a New York sidewalk or in a mother’s womb — Giuliani is highly selective in applying this principle. In 1999, when he was pondering a run for the U.S. Senate, he was asked whether he supported banning partial-birth abortion. “No, I have not supported that,” he said, “and I don’t see my position on that changing.”
“I'm pro-gay rights,” he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.
“What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives,” Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to the New York Times. “Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways.”
In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is “discrimination.”
Giuliani’s positions on abortion and marriage disqualify him as a conservative because they annihilate the link between the natural law and man-made laws. Indeed, they use man-made law to promote and protect acts that violate the natural law.
Given his argument that there is a “continuum” between graffiti and murder, you would think that Giuliani would understand the importance of the link between the natural law and the laws of New York City, let alone the laws of the United States. At the heart of Rudy’s “continuum” argument, is the realization that when society refuses to enforce a just law it teaches people to disrespect the moral principles underlying just laws.
The late Russell Kirk argued in The Conservative Mind that the first canon of conservatism is “[b]elief in a transcendent order, or body of natural law, which rules society as well as conscience. Political problems, at bottom, are religious and moral problems. … True politics is the art of apprehending and applying the Justice which ought to prevail in a community of souls.”
It is simply not justice to take the life of an unborn child. Nor is it justice to codify same-sex relationships so that, by design of the state itself, a child can be denied a mother or a father from birth, which is one thing legalized same-sex unions would do.
By advocating abortion on demand and same-sex unions, Rudy is doing something far more egregious than, say, defacing a New York subway train. He is defacing the institution that forms the foundation of human civilization.
That is not conservative.
Rudy will not win the Republican nomination because enough of the people who vote in Republican caucuses and primaries still respect life and marriage, and are not ready to give up on them — or on the Republican party as an agent for protecting them.
You nailed...no, you tenderized it!
I don't believe we can successfully legislate morality at the ballot box, therefore I will focus on a candidate's positions on economic development, homeland security, and crime prevention above all other factors. Yes it would be nice if the candidate was against abortion in general, but I'd accept a compromise of being against partial-birth abortion and allowing some parental notification. Politics is the art of compromise.
Voting for Rudy is not going to change their conservative views. Rudy's surging popularity can be attributed to one thing......... people are putting the war on terror as their number one issue.
Don't be fooled. Rudy was engaging in double-talk. Nothing more. Rudy maybe a conservative by NYCity standards. In the real world, Rudy is still a liberal.
So when Rudy spoke out against single women having babies out of wedlock and kids growing up without fathers, that was straight from the liberal playbook. Gotcha.
"Like I said, right now I am working hard for Duncan Hunter, but I if Rudy wins the nomination, I will vote for him."
Most likely I will too, IF he gets the nomination. I like Rudy too, but I will not vote for someone because I like him. Feelings can be deceiving and blind us from facts. Yep, that is my opinion all right, just as you have yours.
BTW, I'm glad you are working hard to get a conservative nominated! I might support him too after I see who all gets in during the next few months. Too early for me yet.
The defense strategy, apologist technique for this sort of thing is reminiscent of a Romney backing:
"Oh, that was back in the 90s, a long, long, long time ago, before people shopped online and before 24 came on the air. Those guys have changed now. They aren't like that anymore."
I just don't know how someone's core values can change so drastically past the age of mid 30s. Perhaps I'm getting old but the mid to late 90s seems like yesterday.
Sure he said, "Marriage should be between a man and a woman" but he was also for recognizing domestic partners. His stand on gun control troubled me. As for illegals, he tried some double talk but essentially admitted he is against the fence and for amnesty - which means he will be weak and ineffective on WOT.
Then there are other things in his past that voters will remember:
*he actually recommended Kerik for top national security position
*he had a chance during the last election to undermine Hillary, quite possibly defeat her, yet he avoided running against her - appearing scared of her.
*his support of illegal aliens in NYC
Same here. Every primary. Unfortunately, our primary is so late that it doesn't make much difference. My vote will definitely be for Rudy, though.
Rush L. has quite a following in this country. Conservative radio dominates AM. Liberal talk radio is almost invisible , or should I say inaudible. Free Republic has the most participants of any website in its genre. Nevertheless, the traditional views of Americans seem to be losing at every point.
We are being overwhelmed by homosexual activism, abortion on demand, justification for a massive illegal invasion, surrender to terrorists, etc.
I was fooled into voting for Bush Sr. and W. I have trouble deciding which one is more treacherous. I suppose G. H. W. Bush gadding about with Clinton really decides that one. Any leader of any persuasion who can befriend that criminal is void of conscience.
I would vote for Rudy against Lady Macbeth, but count me as one who has been left in the cold by the GOP. The RINO Senate is made up of capons and geldings.
If we do not get a peaceful revolution in the GOP, we will have a complete collapse into Left wing activism as the norm, Mexifornia as the ideal socialist state.
Of course we legislate morality all the time. Stealing, killing, slavery, pedophilia, rape; those are all "morality" issues. Shall we ignore them too? Or should we ignore just the "morality issues" you don't care about?
In your dream, pal. No Republican can win without the conservative southern GOP vote. Facts is facts!
There is no morality after the SCOTUS gave us the Webster ruling, which went against its doctrine of infallibility, overturning the previous George sodomy case. Given the sweet mystery of life at last I've found you ruling, no aperture is safe, no morality is legitimate.
You are correct, but the trends are against you.
Regarding your tagline - Condi 2008.
You realize that she is pro-choice? Does that affect your core values assessment or does it only apply to some people?
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05031401.html
I simply posed a question. And you do realize by socon, I meant social conservative, not southern conservative?
I am much more concerned with our nations security than I am with Rudy having breakfast with lesbos. New York has a very large gay population. These people vote. Do you think its smart for a mayor to totally ignore shuch a big voting block? I don't.
You can be on my debating team any time.
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