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Believe me,

George "the Christians are what's wrong with America" Will and the Rockefeller types who want a second Libertarian Party are drooling over the idea of Rudy winning the Presidency.

This is a Civil War right now between a very, very, very loud and persistent minority of Liberal GOP types who only want fiscal and defense/crime issues to ever be of any concern in any campaign for the rest of eternity, and the SoCon/Gun Conservatives who want candidates who'll represent SoCon/Gun issues as well as fiscal/defense/crime issues.

Make no mistake, these are the folks who want all of America to mirror NY City. They just think that they can get all of the Liberals on board and have a big-tent, one-party system if they dump anyone who cares about anything other than taxes, crime, and defense.

It is a big fight right now between the Rudy backers, who selfishly want ONLY their issues represented in the campaign, and the SoCon/Gun Conservatives who want all of the issues represented.

I will not sell my soul to win one election.

I have been an admirer of Rudy for some time, doing what could be done by a Republican in NY, and I have a lot of respect for the guy. I have always been opposed to his Presidential candidacy, though open to having him as the Veep on the ticket. But the threat his candidacy poses to the issues I care about is huge, and the persistence of the loud few is beginning to make me believe there are greater enemies in our own Party than I ever thought. The Rockefeller/Liberal GOP types like DeRoy Murdoch and George Will are constantly on their Presidential kneepads for Rudy. and they don't care - they just DON'T CARE - if anyone has objections. To hell with them - it's Rudy or nothing!

I am writing some letters to the Family Research Council and a couple of other organizations about the need for them to start following through with their promises to take Rudy down by spreading awareness that he's running under the wrong Party for a PRESIDENTIAL race. I'm going to see if they need any help spreading literature, or working phone banks, or if they need help in any particular state in the coming months. Enough is enough. We have an enemy of many of our causes trying to hijack the party, and he must be defeated with all of our efforts.

I haven't read so much b*llsh*t since the Democrats started trying the same thing in a different form "reasonable gun laws," "safe, legal, and rare," etc. etc. etc. etc. Same damn stuff - Oh, we promise, Rudy won't really be Rudy as President! You have nothing to fear - forget his history, it's all circumstantial! We who want your issues dumped two years before the election - we'll help you promote them after we win! Trust us!

Rudy will sign more gun restriction into law - anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.

Rudy will reverse the Mexico City law, and will greatly liberalize the abortion laws in this country with every executive power available to him - anyone telling you otherwise is a liar. Embryonic Stem Cells, Partial-Birth Abortion, you name it.

Rudy will be a critical impediment for the Pro-Defense-of-Marriage movement, at a time when we desperately need a consistent champion for the cause in the White House. Anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.

Rudy will not appoint a single judge who he fears might overturn law he holds sacrosanct - like Roe v. Wade - anyone telling you otherwise is a liar. He has called it "good law" and has called himself a "Champion of Choice." You are a blithering IDIOT if you think there's any chance Rudy Giuliani would ever, under ANY circumstance, appoint the fifth Justice to overturn Roe V. Wade. This is so elementary I cannot believe ANYONE is so idiotic as to think otherwise.

Rudy is wrong on Hate Crimes Legislation, Immigration, Guns, Abortion, Partial-Birth Abortion, Public Funding of Abortion, Gay Rights, I mean this list goes on and on.

We can have a candidate who has been a self-profeesed champion of the WRONG side of a litany of the issues we hold dear, or we can have one of a series of candidates who will fight for the causes we believe in - not one or two or three of them - but nearly all of them.

It is time to start calling a duck a duck. Rudy Giuliani is a threat to the SocCon/Gun Conservative movement, and has been an activist, avowed enemy of many of the SoCon and Gun Conservative issues many of us hold dear. To expect him to act as ANYTHING other than that is foolishness or deceit of the highest degree.

This is the first time in my lifetime I have ever had a GOP candidate who threatens me more than the Democrat candidate.

Hey. Here's an idea! Let's try to achieve some fiscally Conservative ideas by tripling the government budget and raising taxes. I mean, think about it - we could triple the defense budget, and add three times the police on the streets! What could be more Conservative? George Will is right - we need to elect a Liberal who'll do this!

Rudy is wrong on Hate Crimes Legislation, Immigration, Guns, Abortion, Partial-Birth Abortion, Public Funding of Abortion, Gay Rights, I mean this list goes on and on.

Here we go again. Another single issue guy. /s

#39 BUMP!!

the threat his candidacy (Giuliani) poses to the issues I care about is huge, and the persistence of the loud few is beginning to make me believe there are greater enemies in our own Party than I ever thought.

Can I frame that post???

About four years ago I might have considered Giuliani as a GOP candidate, but after witnessing the behavior of his supporters, I never will. [One particular person I know who was for Giuliani early on, and not a member of this forum, was so animated and hostile when I questioned some of Giuliani's publicly stated positions. That did it for me.]

"Rudy will not appoint a single judge who he fears might overturn law he holds sacrosanct - like Roe v. Wade"

or a judge that might rule to keep marriage between a man and a woman.

It seems as if we have an enemy within the Republican Party seeking to destory conservatism.

ATENTION EVERYONE: Please read TitansAFC fantastic post #39.

Rockefeller types who want a second Libertarian Party

I'm with you all the way, in spades, except for this statement. Rockefeller was as far from Libertarian as one could get in the Republican party.