Achieving Socially Conservative Ideals Through Liberal Means: Making The Case for Rudy (2008)

Red State ^ | February 4, 2007 | D.M. Eaton

[Clintonfatigued]

For this reason, contrary to conventional wisdom, a victory by Rudy Giuliani would strengthen even the socially conservative agenda in the long run. As the new Fox Dynamics Poll shows, 65 percent of Americans would be “comfortable” with a Rudy Giuliani administration. Being comfortable is a major step in the right direction. Americans might actually listen to him when gives the State of the Union (without a teleprompter no less, as he usually speaks with note cards or does so extemporaneously). A Giuliani administration that would focus on fighting the Islamic Extremists, reducing the size and scope of government, handling crisis, and putting strict constructionists on the bench who will interpret the law properly will draw more support from more people in the short term. This will translate to more understanding of conservative policies on other matters because individuals will have more patience to read the conservative ramblings of columnists and pundits. In the long run, as a result this will turn into more votes. As Winston Churchill is often quoted, "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain"...

Due to the challenges facing this country, this election cycle we Republicans need to nominate someone with an actual record of accomplishment of tackling seemingly intractable problems. As George Will said on “This Week,” “His eight years as mayor of New York were the most successful episode of conservative governance in this country in the last 50 years, on welfare and crime particularly." Giuliani, more than any other candidate (Romney comes the closest) has the record of taking on major institutions and reforming them.

[Torie]

I set up a hypothetical within the poster's belief matrix. It was not about what the nexus should be between government and God and/or religion, or what the Founders thought it should be, or what the Constitution says it is.

[CobaltBlue]

No, dear, you're quite hopelessly ignorant of the principles of federalism if you think that sentence you highlighted in red is all one needs to know federalism.

But I really am wasting my breath here. And have better things to do.

[Rembrandt]

"This is an interesting argument, and there is some logic to it. While I'm not advocating voting for Guiliani (I'm undecided), I do think that conservatives who rule out voting for him without much reflection and study of his accomplishments are short-sighted."

I support Condi Rice during the primaries. If RG is the Republican nominee, I'll certainly support and vote for him. Too bad I don't have the scruples of a Democrat, I could vote for Rudi multiple times with a clear conscience.

[CobaltBlue]

I am simply observing that debating whether God thinks homosexuality is an abomination isn't really relevant to whether or not Giuliani is a good candidate.

It's a free country, you can do whatever you wish with your time.

[freedomfiter2]

When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law.


But I keep hearing that Rudy is a law and order guy.

[Torie]

It's a free country, you can do whatever you wish with your time.

How accommodating of you. I appreciate your giving me permission to do so. Best.

[Rembrandt]

"Rudy is weak on borders; so therefore, would be weak on fighting terrorism."

There may be some truth in what you say, but it's highly debateable. While he does have some identifiable weaknesses (to Conservatives), he has one undeniable and striking strength - he has great charisma. That got Bubba elected, it can get Rudi elected. He'll be a great campaigner.

He would stand a great chance of taking New York which Republicans typically lose.

[EternalVigilance]

The Founders never intended for religious issues to be decided by the federal government.

Sorry, but the murder of unborn Americans is not a "religious" issue, any more than any other kind of murder is.

Go read the preamble to the Constitution: its very premise. It guarantees equal rights to our posterity. (Buying you a clue: "posterity" means those who are not yet born.)

Also, the idea that marriage issues are not federal ones is completely destroyed by the fact that Congress quite explicitly legislated that several states could not even enter, or stay within, the Union unless and until they forsook plural marriage.

[EternalVigilance]

But I keep hearing that Rudy is a law and order guy.

Yep. But his actions speak so loudly I can't hear what they're saying...

[freedomfiter2]

Abortion and homosexuality are not federal issues.

Then why did the SCOTUS take away tye states' right to legislate on these issues?

[narses]

While he was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Court benchs. In all of those judicial appointment not one of them was a Republican.

All of his judical appointments were either registered Liberals or registered Democrats. As the “Republican Mayor” he had appointment power over more than 70 full commissioners in more than 50 City agencies, yet at no time during his administration did REPUBLICANS account for more than 10% of those appointments.

He even appointed Chuck Schumers wife as the City’s Department of Transportation Commissioner.


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http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9054.html

[freedomfiter2]

Soooo, This guy wanted Gore in 2000 but could now settle for Rudy.

It's not much of a stretch.

[narses]

Tuesday, June 20, 2000 MAYOR GIULIANI AND SPEAKER VALLONE ANNOUNCE CITY LAWSUIT AGAINST GUN INDUSTRY

Rudy has contempt for our Right to Keep and Bear Arms. He is a RINO.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

The Founders never intended for religious issues to be decided by the federal government.

98 U.S. 145

REYNOLDS

v.

UNITED STATES.

October Term, 1878

"Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinions, they may with practices. Suppose one believed that human sacrifices were a necessary part of religious worship, would it be seriously contended that the civil government under which he lived could not interfere to prevent a sacrifice?

...Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? [98 U.S. 145, 167] To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government could exist only in name under such circumstances."

[patton]

If rudy wins the presidential election, the Democrat Party will control both houses, the white house, and the courts.

"If you want that to happen, you are an idiot."

[narses]

I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights, Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded. Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999 http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Rudy_Giuliani_Abortion.htm

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES (November 14, 2006)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I'm pro- choice. I'm pro-gay rights.

KING: Giuliani supports a woman's right to an abortion, and back in 1999, he opposed a federal ban on late-term abortions.

GIULIANI: No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing.

KING: Immigration could be another presidential landmine. Back in 1996, Mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants.

JEFFREY: He took the side of illegal immigrants in New York City against the Republican Congress.

KING: Giuliani opposes same-sex marriage but as mayor, he supported civil unions and extending health and other benefits to gay couples. He also supported the assault weapons ban and other gun control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association.

GIULIANI: I'm in favor of gun control. I'm pro-choice.

Republican Big-Wigs Support Pro-Abortion Event in NY

Pro-abortion Governor George Pataki and New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who also supports unrestricted abortion, are co-chairs of the 2000 Choice Award Presentation to be held on May 30 at the St. Regis Hotel in New York City. The event is sponsored by the Republican Pro-Choice Coalition, a group that is campaigning for the removal of the pro-life plank from the Republican National Platform.


http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200503010743.asp

[EternalVigilance]

if you became convinced as a scientific fact that some people are wired from birth to be gay, would that influence your theological assumption that God considers such behavior an abomination?

No. And you're never going to find such proof. God knows the Left has tried.

[EternalVigilance]

Brilliant question.

[Torie]

So if the scientific proof emerged (I appreciate that you don't think it will), then apparently in your view in such event not all are created in God's image. Who knew?

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

You just refuse to read the Constitution... it is very clear you think of it as toilet paper...