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To: Red Badger

Am I the only one that remembers when we went through the Diesel Car "Revolution" before??

When you put diesels in the hands of average consumers, in COLD PLACES, they become an absolute nightmare....

First -3 degree morning when it doesn't start on the first pull, these things will be heading back to the dealerships in DROVES...


18 posted on 01/31/2007 10:29:22 AM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: tcrlaf
First -3 degree morning when it doesn't start on the first pull, these things will be heading back to the dealerships in DROVES...

Today's diesels are not your father's diesels..............50% of the cars sold in Europe are diesels, and I remember it got quite cold when I was there........

19 posted on 01/31/2007 10:33:10 AM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: tcrlaf

Euros also tend to keep cars FOR LIFE, unlike Americans..

We HAVE seen all of this before.

Tell me that the Grandma that can't program the VCR is going to remember to plug it in, and put additive in it, when she visits the kids in Chicago from Florida??


20 posted on 01/31/2007 10:44:37 AM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: tcrlaf

I've been driving VW diesels since 1982. Started with a gutless '81 Rabbit. Had a block heater that I'd plug in when it got super chilly. You only forget to add the fuel additive ONCE.

I like the Jetta TDI better, however, the turbo ceases to work and requires a little clean up. This is true for the '98 and the '02 models, as I can personally testify. Plus VW seems to have a problem with the indicator lights on the panel coming on when there is no problem. When I factor in the higher cost of diesel, plus the costs of deglunking the turbo and replacement of timing belts every 60,000 miles, I question if I am saving any money at all.


26 posted on 01/31/2007 11:26:53 AM PST by giznort
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To: tcrlaf

You're exactly onto the reasons why American consumers are so suspicious of diesels: Detroit made a royal hash out of diesel engines in the late 70's. There was GM's stupid effort where they took a V-8 350 gas engine, changed the pistons and fuel system and called it a diesel. Horrible piece of crap. There was the VW Rabbit diesel, popularly known as "The Turtle" where they had a diesel with no boost.

Here's what is different about today's diesels vs. those diesels:

1. All diesels in passenger cars or pickups today have turbos.
2. All diesels in passenger cars today have computer controlled fuel systems, so it is impossible to over-fuel the engine. "Over fueling" is what results in the classic thick, black smoke that people hated about diesels.
3. Today's diesels have advanced very significantly WRT cold starting. Glow plugs are common in some product lines. Glow plugs aren't my favorite cold start assist, but they work. The better cold start assists have one glow plug and ignite a little bit of fuel in the air intake, thereby heating the intake air, which then gets sucked into the engine, which helps the engine start. Today's diesels are tighter, and with the computer control of the fuel system, the computer will prevent wet-stacking of engines when they're cold.
4. As diesel has become more popular for passenger cars, you see better control of the fuel supply for winter conditions. It used to be that in winter, the refineries and fuel retailers just kept on selling #2. Today, in many cold climate areas, in winter the fuel retailers aren't selling straight #2 any more -- they're selling #2 with some #1 mixed in to prevent gelling.
5. Lastly, and most people who aren't around diesels a lot don't understand how important this is -- injector technology has changed in ways the consumer cannot even begin to understand. Better injectors means better atomizing of the fuel. The old injectors used to produce, by comparison, some rather fat fuel spray patterns. This is OK if the engine is hot and the fuel gets nice and thin. It will mostly burn.

Emissions requirements has meant that diesel engine engineers have labored mightily to create injection systems that evenly and very, very finely atomize the fuel, resulting in both better combustion and better starting at low temps.

Even where industrial diesels are concerned, starting a 1970's diesel vs. a 1990's diesel is night and day. We have a bunch of tractors that date from the late 70's on this farm. They're a bear to start in 0F weather. We also have a recent engine in a New Holland balewagon. It has a cold-start assist of the glow plug+fuel dispenser in the air intake. I guess it works. I don't really know. I've never had to use it. The computer monitoring of the fuel supply, coupled with the improved injectors, means I can start the NH engine down to 0F without glow plugs or the cold start assist, whereas on the 1978 Deere tractors, I have to use the ether injection system and the block heater to get that machine running in the morning.

The most succinct way I can convince you that the modern diesels are vastly superior to the 1970's diesels is this:

GM has nothing to do with modern diesels. So the stupid people are off in a corner, going bankrupt, while the rest of the automotive industry, who happens to not suffer from cranial/rectal inversion, rapidly develops new and better diesel technology.


44 posted on 02/01/2007 12:34:50 AM PST by NVDave
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