Posted on 01/31/2007 5:14:36 AM PST by MARKUSPRIME
This is supposed to mean that the Nazis were in some way better than the Imperial Japanese?
Moral absolutes say not.
I will give you this, the Nazis had better-looking uniforms than the Imperial Japanese did.
Style excuses nothing.
Oh, I can only hope a full war against all of Western Europe in the near future. Put them under the thumb once and for all. Break their backs and give them all to Poland.
Defend your country - as I do for mine - but don´t defend the indefensible. Our patriotism should not let us forget common sense. It is plain wrong to kidnap an innocent, period. Saying this is not anti-American or "USA is Satan"-like.
I agree. We are heading down a dangerous path to completely unaccountable unrestrained government.
If Mr. Masri's allegations are true he should at the very least have his day in court. I understand this has been denied to him on the grounds of national security.
National security is being used as an excuse to deny habeus corpus to American citizens and to permit abuse of innocent people. This is unacceptable.
But you do have understood that your countrymen (the agents) have kidnapped an innocent? And do you honestly believe that these CIA agents risk their lives? They don´t stand in the frontlines, they don´t risk being blown up by IED´s, and I haven´t heard that interrogators have been killed in Gitmo. Look, the actions of your government agency were provocative, and believe it or not, you too have to respect laws. I´m glad that many of your fellow countrymen have understood that, and many of them are here on FR, too. The WOT is no excuse for disposing of certain rights. Commenting the mistakes of your agents with a call for continuing WW2 atrocities and going back to WW2 propaganda terms is more than inappropriate.
The first American casualty in Afganistan was a CIA operative. CIA field personnel are frequently behind enemy lines and in harm's way. They were inside Afganistan well before the fall of the Taliban. The process of rendition is a legal, necessary and vital tool in the WOT and has resulted in saving the lives of thousands of innocents. I don't apoligize for it. If even one of these persons is extradicted to Germany, you and the rest of your countrymen are going to live to regret it.
What recourse do you suggest innocent kidnapping victims should have after being tortured on behalf of United States?
These guys are necessary.
Their orders and the way guitmo is set up endangers freedom - as it is prooven by this case.
Me and my countrymen live and practice a judical system that was build up under the eye of the US.
So who should we honour most ? The US that helped up germany after 49 - the guys who brought us freedom and democracy ( i.e. as an example the right not to be dragged away by the gestapo)
Or a government that acts in the good history of the KGB, securitate and Gestapo ?
Correct. You can't arrest anyone if you cannot identify them.
Except... maybe... we Germans do it like your CIA did: we simply assume that the names are "Miller, Warren", "Miller, Christopher", "Miller, Justin", "Miller, Sarah", "Miller, Catherine", etc. then we kidnap all those who have these names and are right now in Germany (I bet there are lots of them among the 75,000 GI´s), torture them and keep them in our Helgoland Island detention camp for months until we set them free, tell them that it was a simple spelling error, and claim it never happened. Hah!
The withdrawl of American troops and the closing of our bases in Germany is long over due. Close them and either move the troops to Poland-where the econimic benefit of our bases would be appreciated or "redeploy" completely from Europe.
The German intelligence doesn't have the muscle to do that. The regular U.S. Army would be all over you like ugly on an ape, the CIA wouldn't have to lift a finger...
Ok, I have to step in here because the use of certain words is highly unfair.
you use the word "Kidnapping" and an "Innocent" as if the CIA had nothing better to do than pick someone at random out of a crowd and hold him for ransom. Not the case at all.
Our intelligence agencies work with yours. I've "been there, done that". See my profile.
Anyway, I'm sure the agents had intelligence on this person and detained--NOT kidnapped--him because they were prosecuting a war against blood-thirsty Islamic terrorists who: Kill children on purpose (Breslan), murder thousands on one day (9/11), kill hundreds of foreign nationals just to get at one American target (Kenya/Tanzania bombings). These terrorist have no country but operate in many freedom-loving countries, such as yours, knowing very well that the laws and instituions of that country will protect them much better than their old despotic ones. Even when, and especially when they are up to no good.
The man proved to be innocent, and I'm very sorry for him, and hope we apologize and compensate him financially handsomely. But Michael, for certain people in your country, especially officials, to say he was an innocent that was simply kidnapped is terribly harmful when our combined intelligence people, who have to make judgements on often fleeting and incomplete data, in order to prevent far greater harm, are prosecuting this horrible shadow war thrust upon the West be muslim fanatics.
During the heat of the Cold War, innocent Germans were often targeted by both the Soviet's and the West's intelligence people. The West generally tried to make ammends when things such as a persons innocence was found out. The Soviets didn't, as generally they just killed the victim.
It happens. The US should apologize, compensate, and Germany should accept this as a partner in, as I said, a war thrust upon the entire West (to assume the War is only on America--not saying you do--but many Europeans hold this thought--is a grave mistake).
I always thought the Germans were smarter than that.
I can't believe that they actually think this muzzie is one of them. Muzzies don't respect citizenship of any country. They only know that they are muzzies and everyone else deserves to die.
The germans should be thanking the CIA for taking out the trash.
By forcing them to defend themselves they will quit all this childish nonsense and be forced to grow up.
They've had plenty of time since the 40's to mature, and now it's time to kick the little < expletive deleted > out of the nest and make them fend for themselves.
What laws would those be?
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