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To: reformedliberal
Our species has survived this cycle before. Today, we also have technology to insulate us even further from these cyclic changes.

Our civilizations arose during a period of remarkable climate stability. There are scholarly papers that have indicated civilization could only have arose under such remarkable stability. And technology won't be able to counter the effects of massive crop failures and significant reduction in freshwater resources -- two possible scenarios of rapid global warming. In the following century, accelerated sea level rise could happen if the Greenland ice sheet melts drastically or breaks up, affecting coastal communities globally.

91 posted on 01/30/2007 10:56:49 AM PST by cogitator
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To: cogitator
In the following century, accelerated sea level rise could happen if the Greenland ice sheet melts drastically or breaks up, affecting coastal communities globally.

You are giving the impression through your posts you know what you are talking about. So a question.

"Accelerated sea level rise" implies there is current sea level rise that will accelerate. Can you point out some areas where there has been a rise in the sea level in the past 20 years?

97 posted on 01/30/2007 11:25:22 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: cogitator
Which civilizations? Those of the Medieval Warm Period of approximately 900--1300 AD? Those of the minimas that occurred between 1650--1850, with brief warmings between them? What parameters of definition are being cited here for "civilization"? For that matter, please define "climate stability."

Technology which hasn't been needed and therefore not thought of nor invented yet could certainly provide underground living habitats, covered fields, desalinization from all that extra water, whether occurring from expansion due to temperature rise or melting fresh water ice. Sodium Chloride and other alkalies like Sodium Bicarbonate can be combined and baked to form relatively durable substances, so why couldn't we use the salt from desalination, mixed with alkaline salts left after small lake evaporation, perhaps infused with some sort of nano fiber made from all that excess carbon to create habitats, dikes, or other useful things in the future? For all we know, the impetus of climate change will spur human technological development in ways we cannot even imagine today. These sorts of technological adaptations are available to us today. We are researching and developing technologies that will allow human habitation of the Moon and Mars, not to mention space.

We can breed all sorts of plants that are adapted to all sorts of conditions, from less light, less moisture, salt-saturation, extreme heat, even soiless cultivation right now, so why couldn't this be done even more efficiently and to a greater extent in the future?

Why would freshwater resources be reduced? We have advanced recycling capabilities right now and, as noted, desalination techniques.The reports I have seen forecast droughts in some places and torrential rain in others. Since all the water we have right now has always been on Earth, if we can free up that which is presently frozen, we will have access to increased supplies and if we can transport hydrocarbons by pipeline, then transporting water will be possible, as well. If we have a century before coastal communities are threatened, then we have enough time to relocate people, build even better dikes/seawalls, just like the Dutch have already done, elevate habitat or perhaps cope in ways we haven't yet thought of.

Do you have actual sources for these "scholarly papers"? I am afraid I don't have a high tolerance for argument by intimidation. I saw my first "scholarly" attempt at this sort of fear-mongering in 1965 when the appraisal company where I worked received Lester Brown's huge, expensive resource maps *proving* that we would run out of all commodities and the ability to feed humanity by the 1990s. I remember Ehrlich writing and being promoted for his neo-Malthusian ideas in the 1970s. There have been "proofs" of all sorts of catastrophes for hundreds of years and not a single one has stopped the human race from adapting, mainly because none came to pass.I have been hearing about excessive heat from global warming for 19 years now and hardwoods still grow in the upper Midwest, winter still occurs, rivers and lakes still freeze, rains come in the warmer seasons, crops grow, people live on barrier islands and along coastlines and commoditties still exist and are utilized.

At one time, it was thought to be *impossible* to travel in space, due to the threat of ionizing radiation. There were once no cures for diseases that today are curable or at least survivable. Prosthetics have advanced to the point where amputees compete competently in many physical sports and some soldiers return to the battlefield with them. Cataracts were once non-removable, then, even though removed, necessitated contacts or thick glasses afterwards. Today we have implanted lenses and it is even possible for some people to regain focusing capability with the interocular implants.

"Impossible" is what spurs invention. Scholarly reports come and go. Earth and humanity, so far, still endure.
110 posted on 01/30/2007 12:44:50 PM PST by reformedliberal ("Eliminate the mullahs and Islam shall disappear in fifty years." Ayatollah Khomeini)
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