"Wintertime irritates me more than she does you, since she's supposed to be on my side"
She used to irritate me. Now I find her amusing.
"I don't mean to snap or be defensive... it just frustrates me because this whole "what if the parents are running meth labs" is the new "what about socialization" - a total strawman that is going to be used to beat homeschoolers about the head."
It's only a straw man if I was trying to characterize the homeschool movement based on the example of a very few.
Which I wasn't.
Wintertime is on a mission to demonize all public school teachers - all public schools. There seems to be the assumption that all homeschool situations are pure heaven.
I'm simply pointing out that isn't the case.
And when you bristle at someone pointing out incompetent homeschoolers...then you come to know how good public school teachers feel when they read threads like this.
"In case two, well, honestly the government can take their standards and shove 'em. Sorry. That's me being defensive again :-) "
I'm confused...you don't think there should be standards?
Then how do you know homeschoolers are outperforming their peers?
And are those studies based on a set of standards?
"Study after study shows homeschoolers outperforming their peers everywhere."
I'm not sure what studies you are referring to, but I do know a little about how public school compare themselves with other schools.
It isn't as simple at giving kids of the same age and grade the same test and comparing the results.
Demographics are also figured in as far as average annual income of families in the district - minorities - comparing boys and girls.
For ex: my husbands school is considered rural poor - one of the poorest in the state. For the purposes of following the NCLB law - this school is compared with other rural poor.
It is nice to know however that in our area this "rural poor" school is outperforming most of the neighoring districts and is only being outdone by the wealthiest district.
In other words - it makes perfect sense that the type of parents who would be self sacrificing and loving enough to homeschool would have their children outperform many kids of their own age.
Do your studies compare them with other 2 parent families of similar income brackets?
"Isn't it true of every kid that they have strengths and weaknesses"
Well sure...but one thing that seems to happen is a kid will come into high school from homeschooling.
The parents may feel they have reached their limit in math - and the kids is tested to see where he will best fit in.
Our district is fortunate to have an extremely talented math teacher.
After spending a year with this teacher, the homeschoolers have caught up to their peers in math and are no longer "weak" in this subject.
So...it is POSSIBLE for it to work the other way....that a public school teacher CAN help a kid in a subject better than the parents can.
"When the government schools have 100% success at graduating students who can read, they can come regulate homeschools."
Well surely you know that is never going to happen.
The public schools are required to teach every kid that comes through the door no matter their disability or home life.
Even if a miracle happened and all public school teachers became everything everyone wants them to be - you still aren't going to get that 100% figure.
Honestly - that was a statement I expected out of Wintertime.
It wasn't my point anyway - that homeschoolers should be "regulated" by the public schools.
In time each kid is going to have make it - either in college or the working world, and that will be the true test.
But let me ask you this....when someone claims to be homeschooling, and they really aren't - what is the solution there?
Isn't the kid being neglected?
I actually do believe that there should be no government regulation of homeschools. We can still compare the completed product - graduated students - with public and private ones if comparisons are important which I don't think they are. Homeschoolers can take the SAT or whatever else they need to get into college and the government can stay out.
Because I just don't understand how one can logically say "this far, no further". The government can make us take tests, but can't mandate curriculumn. Or can demand certain subjects be taught, but not how or the exact content. Can require one parent has a high school diploma, but not teacher certification. A certified teacher evaluating the child, but not a psychologist. Etcetera, etcetera. It is none of the government's business!
Child abuse situations I concede to the government because they have a beauracracy in place and because the optimal solution - grandparents, neighbors, and church stepping in - won't always work. But I'm talking about physical abuse, starving a child or beating him. Denying a child education (which I am firmly convinced only happens in a sitation that is objectively abusive anyway) cannot be a standard for abuse. What should happen in such a sitation? Extended family or church should step in. Yes I'm aware that this isn't a perfect world and that won't solve all cases but hard cases make bad law. I want the law to respect the rights of the 99.99% of the good parents, not be written to deal with the 0.01% of bad parents.