Are the Right People Becoming Teachers? ( Teachers are NOT Professionals)

EdNews.org ^ | January 9,2007 | Martin Haberman

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(snip)

1. The practitioners know and can do things the public in general cannot do. They have a specialized body of knowledge.

2. The specialized body of knowledge practitioners have takes an extended period of time to learn.

3. The educators who prepare the practitioners are experts who agree upon the specialized body of knowledge practitioners must have.

4. Admission to a professional training program is highly selective.( snip).

6. Only members of the profession set the standards for licensure and certification.

7. The primary responsibility and loyalty of a professional is to serve the client and not simply the institution or governmental agency in which the practitioner may be employed.

8. Neither the public at large nor an employing institution may control the way in which professionals relate to their clients, or the treatments, methods or procedures they use.

9. Neither the public at large nor an employing institution may set the purpose, goals or objectives for the practitioner’s practice with clients.

10. The public at large does not decide how to evaluate professionals.

11. Only members of the profession can determine malpractice and dismiss or disbar practitioners.

12. Professionals determine the cost of their services.

19. Professionals are trained to serve clients with problems. By definition “professionals” do not seek to perform services to clients without problems.

21. Professionals share a code of ethics to which they commit and adhere. They cannot be directed to perform or not perform services for clients which conflict with their professional code.

The case that teaching does not meet any of these twenty one criteria can be readily made.

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Quick, somebody tell all those folks with kids at Choate they're throwing their money away.

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These people are paying big bucks for social contacts that will be useful to these children later in life. It is possibly buying a somewhat better chance of gaining admission to a highly ranked university. It IS paying for country club facilities.

BUT,,,it is NOT necessarily buying a better **Education**.

In my opinion, yes, the money spent on Exeter, or a Lawrenceville is wasted money,,,IF,,,***education*** is the product desired. If **education*** is the product desired there are many less expensive ways to acquire an education equal to any of the highly priced boarding or prep schools.

If social contacts are desired, or a better chance for admission to a top ranked college, then, perhaps the tuition of Choate will buy that. ( Maybe!)

[perseid 67]

Our leaders should have ripped off the Jesuits not the Prussians.

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In NY they're shutting down Catholic schools left and right because they lose too much money.

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In Philadelphia the Catholic schools are now in competition with Charter schools. It's hard to compete when a government schools ( Charters) are giving a product away for free. Private grocery stores would have a hard time of it too, if government opened free food stores. This would be true even if the government were giving away poor quality food.

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A professional will solve the client's issue before it becomes a problem.

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Medical people do that every time they do a yearly physical or mammogram.

[durasell]

But,,,don't expect taxpayers to do that for the nation's children.





I've known several Choate and other prep school graduates over the years. They are extremely bright and are grateful for the education they received. The social contacts are nice, but the education is excellent.

To paint the cost of a prep school education as paying for country club facilities is really false. It gives the impression that the hefty tuition has nothing or very little to do with the quality of education.

The bottomline is this: If you have the money then you can afford a top flight education and your kid has the brains, then he or she succeeds. If you don't have the money, then you pay for second best and even if the kid has the potential to succeed, then he or she will probably still end up detailing cars.

[Gabz]

..........the worst schools get the least expensive (least experienced) and worst teachers, thus perpetuating the cycle.

I would agree with to a point, when looking at the entire socio-economic concept, particularly in mahor metro areas

I live in a rural county, that is way down on the totem pole in terms of socio-economics, but the schools in this district (entire county) while not perfect, are far superior to the district we moved from, in another state with a higher socio-economic level. And it was one of the reasons we moved from where we lived in Delaware to where we now live in Virginia.

The Delaware branch of the NEA holds heavy duty clout in Dover, I have not seen the same "power" of the VA branch of the NEA in Richmond, and this is a far larger state.

Of course I live in the "forgotten" part of the state, so forgotten that even one of the candidates in the '05 Lt. Gov primary didn't even bother to include it on the map outline he had on all of his stationary-------and that was a Republican.

[Gabz]

In Philadelphia the Catholic schools are now in competition with Charter schools. It's hard to compete when a government schools ( Charters) are giving a product away for free.

Haven't you told us that you are a product, in part, of a FREE Catholic education?

[Gabz]

If you don't have the money, then you pay for second best and even if the kid has the potential to succeed, then he or she will probably still end up detailing cars.

Come on, you really don't believe that, do you? I doubt it, as even you know plenty of people who have succeeded in life that went to public school. I know I do, in fact I'm married to such a person.

[durasell]

I believe that it's an uphill fight and the hill is becoming much steeper.

Over the past decade or so I've witnessed a real trend toward quantifying employees by their educational background. This includes top law firms, banks, and even television. The kid who graduates at the top of his class from a state school is knocked out by the kid who graduated at the bottom of his class at an Ivy. This wasn't always the case, but it's trending that way more every single day.

[Gabz]

The kid who graduates at the top of his class from a state school is knocked out by the kid who graduated at the bottom of his class at an Ivy.

Kids who go to public school also attend Ivy's and do well.........kids who attend private school also attend states and may not do well.

I didn't realize this discussion was about post high school education/graduation.

[durasell]

I thought the discussion was about education. And for the record, I find the current trend somewhat distressing. It isn't efficient. America functions best when it functions efficiently. For instance, the GI Bill unleashed huge amounts of technical creativity.

How many of those engineers who worked on the space program do you suppose were the first in their family to go to college and got their degrees via the GI Bill? I'd wager the number is quite a few.

The problem we have now is that folks are squeezed. Many communities can't afford to spend more on education. The tax payers are tapped out.

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It gives the impression that the hefty tuition has nothing or very little to do with the quality of education.

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It does only up to a point, beyond that the money is spent on services or products ( weight rooms, heated outdoor swimming pools, highly manicured lawns, for instance), that have no influence on the child's ultimate education or the money is wasted.

I do not doubt that the Choate education is excellent, but a good bit of the tuition is being spent on accouterments not on meat.

If family money were an issue, then why are the children of dirt poor immigrants doing so well?

[durasell]

If family money were an issue, then why are the children of dirt poor immigrants doing so well?




In NYC they have specialized high schools for the top tier that many of the immigrants attend -- or the immigrants watch the school administrations like hawks or form their own schools.

In other areas, immigrants make education a priority. They still believe in the "American Dream" and push their kids beyond the bounds of the school. Native born kids tend to slack off thinking their place in society is secure.

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The kid who graduates at the top of his class from a state school is knocked out by the kid who graduated at the bottom of his class at an Ivy

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Law firms have always been elitist, and an Ivy degree is helpful in gaining admission to some professional schools, and in academia.

In business and industry, an Ivy degree is often counter productive. The Ivies simply do not have the best programs in many fields.

In the specific area of chemistry in which my husband earned his Ph.D., there were NO Ivies offering this program. It was exclusively found only in the state universities. My husband then went to work at one of the world's leading chemical firms and had an outstanding career. He published many papers, lectured world wide, and earned 6 patents. He was awarded "Distinguished Scientist" at the young age of 40 40, which was a very high honor from this major company. This company rarely gave a job to an Ivy grad.

The Wall Street Journal reported that businesses are now shunning the Ivy graduates. These graduates too often have an overweening sense of entitlement that is difficult to integrate into the workplace team environment. The truth is also, that often the Ivies do not have the best programs to be found in many technical areas. In my own profession, that is absolutely the case.

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I agree.

[durasell]

I hope you're right, but I haven't seen any evidence of it. I do know you are right in technical fields -- though Cal Tech, MIT etc. are clear leaders and could be called elitist.

[durasell]

Look, we are not very far apart on this thing.

However, I am dead set against taking apart a system willy-nilly prior to making every possible effort to fixing it.
Though many still refuse to believe it, America is in competition with many countries for technical superiority. It's no longer 1950s where we win by default. And the people we are competing against are very, very serious about training worldclass scientists etc.

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In other areas, immigrants make education a priority. They still believe in the "American Dream" and push their kids beyond the bounds of the school.

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Native born families with academically successful children are doing the same. They are making education a priority. They believe in the American Dream, and they push their kids beyond the bounds of school.

If the child is academically successful the above is true whether native born, immigrant, poor, rich, white, black, or any shade in between.

[Gabz]

I agree with you on both the GI Bill and the fact that taxpayers are tapped out.

Taking higher education out of the equation, what needs to be done to guarantee today's children are properly educated?

Short of government force of parents getting more involved in the education of their children I see no quick fixes. And I don't see total privatization to be the answer either, because I know far too many people who spent 12 years in private schools and came out with worse educations than those in public schools.

Parents have the ultimate responsibily of the education of their children, regardless of how they go about it. Be it homeschool, private school, or public school, without parental involvement there are going to be problems.

But, and it is a big one, parental involvement can not be mandated. Oh they can try it all they want, but if there is no parental interest, there will be no involvement. I've seen it through personal experience. I'm not a teacher, but I'm a parent of a 3ed grader who does pay attention.

[durasell]

I know families here in NY whose kids take the subway 2 hours a day each way to and from school. That's a four hour commute. Tough stuff. But most of them are immigrants.