Midnight rush to grab Vista

Delawareonline ^ | 1/30/2007 | Andrew Colley

[Incorrigible]

The Aquarium screen saver is not a Microsoft product. It was something the HP was paid to preinstall on your computer.

[ShawTaylor]

"Here is a partial list of some "Apple fan sites" that have published less than stellar reviews of Vista:"

"Less than stellar" reviews huh?
Let's see exactly what your "less than stellar reviews" do you, when Microsoft release their fiscal 3rd quarter results in April shall we? I am going to bet Microsoft delivers yet another record revenue quarter, fueled by very strong sales of Vista. The Microsoft-hating vermin will loose yet again, as usual.

[ChildOfThe60s]

Hmm, you've read a lot into my statement. If you are clairvoyant, your powers are failing.

I don't hate MS. I don't really give a crap either way about MS in general. I do have some [rather major] bones to pick with them regarding Vista. Which is why I don't intend to use it until such time as they either fix some things, or I am forced to by circumstances.

If you do some serious reading on the extreme intrusiveness of the OS, the resource gobbling inefficiency, the ridiculous licensing terms [when I buy something I expect to own it], you may see that I could be highly infatuated with MS and still want nothing to do with Vista.

Whether I count or not is irrelevant. Nor are the sales. Neither makes it good software.

Out of curiosity, why would you be happy if I never bought Vista? Since I don't count anyway, it certainly won't impact MS in any fashion. It's not like I said your sister was ugly.

I've never understood why people take it so personally if one uses a Mac vs PC, or vice versa. Or if I think an MS OS is garbage. I have no emotional attachment to any software. I have things I want and need to do with software. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, I won't waste my money on it, and go looking elsewhere.

[KoRn]

"Reviewers hated the Luna desktop and new interface, but actual users loved it. Reviewers were wrong then, and they are wrong now."

This question isn't really relevant to this thread, but I'm just wondering. Has Microsoft ever done anything you weren't happy with, or done anything you disagree with?

[ShawTaylor]

"If you do some serious reading on the extreme intrusiveness of the OS, the resource gobbling inefficiency, the ridiculous licensing terms [when I buy something I expect to own it], you may see that I could be highly infatuated with MS and still want nothing to do with Vista.
"

I have done all the reading I need on Vista.
More than that I bought my copy of Vista today, as a consumer exercising my right to buy what I want, with my own hard earned money.
So far, Vista's been an excellent experience.
When you start earning my money for me, then you can start dictating what I buy with my money.
I am not going to take orders from some anonymous poster on the Internet with an ax to grind, who hasn't actually used a prduct, as to whether I buy that product or not.

"Whether I count or not is irrelevant."

What you think on the matter is of little relevance.

" Nor are the sales. Neither makes it good software. "

The ultimate decider of if any product is "good" or not, is the American consumer
I don't buy this sneering, contemptuous, arrogant crap from The Apple fanboy idiots or the open source fanatics, whereby they presume in effect that the American consumer is dumb and doesn't know what is good for him, and that it's they the Apple fanboys who know wat is good for me, more than I myself. That of course is a load of bull!

[Calvin Locke]

Tuesday morning's paper, probably an AP story, said that there is no mad rush to buy it, and that M$ doesn't have a midnight promotion for it either, AND, they [Gates/Ballmer] expect sales to mostly come from new pc buys, rather than upgrades.

And, I think the four home products I glanced at were the 32-bit versions. Not exactly encouraging sales by providing an upgrade path for "home" enthusiasts.

[VeniVidiVici]

I didn't like Vista for months. I guess I grew into it. I really do like it now, although, as usual, the MS search utility just absolutely sucks.

You gotta understand people around here are proud to run 40yo gear. MS-DOS? Hell, these guys brag about using smoke signals for ones and zeros.

A Pinto is not a bean nor a horse, but a car that still has many miles left in it.

And the fact that an 8800GTX (for those that know what one is) has 768MB of memory just means that it can store both video AND the operating system on it!

And whatever they say about Mac (and I own a Mini) just remember that the new Macs were such a smash hit that they've gone from about 1% of the market to 2%. People have just been buyng them in droves I tell ya!

[Swordmaker]

"Less than stellar" reviews huh?
Let's see exactly what your "less than stellar reviews" do you, when Microsoft release their fiscal 3rd quarter results in April shall we? I am going to bet Microsoft delivers yet another record revenue quarter, fueled by very strong sales of Vista. The Microsoft-hating vermin will loose yet again, as usual.

Shaw, you implied that the negative reviews were coming from "Apple fan sites". I merely provided you a list of those "fan sites"... so that everyone can see the truth of where those "less than stellar" reviews REALLY originated.

In addition, Shaw, Argumentum ad Numerum ("Can 70 million Frenchmen be wrong?) and Argumentum ad Populum ("The majority of voters elected Democrats so they must be right") are as much logical fallacies as your Argumentum ad Hominem approach. Numbers and popularity do not necessarily translate to right! 70 million Frenchmen can certainly be wrong... as can the majority of computer buyers. Lemmings all going in the same direction may be in agreement about their path, but they all still fall off the cliff.

[Swordmaker]

This caption commentary DOES happen to come from an Apple Fan site:

"The photo shows Kevin B. Rollins of Dell, Sean Maloney of Intel, Steve Ballmer of Microsoft, Hisatsugu Nonaka of Toshiba, Hector Ruiz of Advanced Micro Devices and Todd Bradley of Hewlett-Packard at the big kick-off for Microsoft's Windows Vista operating system on Monday in New York"

When does the "Wow" start?

Photo credit: Ramin Talaie of Bloomberg News

[ShawTaylor]

" Argumentum ad Populum ("The majority of voters elected Democrats so they must be right") are as much logical fallacies as your Argumentum ad Hominem approach"

No fallacies here.
Were the majority of voters "right"(whatever that means in election) for electing RATS to majorities in the congress last November?
You bet.
In fact, given the way the Republican majorities were behaving in congress (Foley sleaze and subsequent cover up etc, etc), the real surprise would have been if Republicans had been elected to he majorities again.
Way I see it, the electorate is always "right".
Thats what democracy is about.
Who are you to say that voters were "wrong" to vote one way or another?
What you do is vote the way you want, and let others vote the way they want as well. If someone didn't vote for your candidates, it doesn't say someone's vote is "wrong" ,just because you don't like who they voted for.

"Numbers and popularity do not necessarily translate to right!
"

For consumer products, being sold into the consumer market, numbers DO mean right.
If the Nintendo Wii outsells the PS3(which it did last Christmas), even though the PS3 is much more powerful than the Wii, it means consumers prefer the Wii to the PS3. It also means that for playing and enjoying the gaming experience, the Wii is better then the PS3 as far as consumers are concerned, PS3 much more powerful or not!
Same with PC's.

"70 million Frenchmen can certainly be wrong"

70 million Frenchmen vote for who 70 million Frenchmen think will serve the best interests of 70 million Frenchmen. Ergo 70 million Frenchmen vote for the right guys to govern them.
That most Americans are not fond of who 70 million Frenchmen choose is irrelevant,
They don't vote for someone Americans will like, just someone that best serves their interests.

"... as can the majority of computer buyers."

Majority of computer buyers are buy exactly the computers that best serve their interests, can run all the applications and games they need, and at the lowest prices they can get.
That is exactly what they are supposed to do.
The fact tat they don't buy your overpriced Apple computers, or don't buy some Linux computer, doesn't make anyone "wrong".

" Lemmings all going in the same direction may be in agreement about their path, but they all still fall off the cliff."

There goes that unmitigated arrogance from the Apple fanboy critters again.
Look, this is a free country with the biggest choices in consumer products anywhere. People are free to buy what they want with their hard earned money.
The fact that they don't buy the same high priced products that you buy , doesn't make anyone "lemmings".
It makes them very smart, astute consumers, who know exactly what is right for them.

[Swordmaker]

No fallacies here.

Your posts are filled with such fallacies. Here's one:

There goes that unmitigated arrogance from the Apple fanboy critters again.

That's Argumentum ad Hominem. I have not insulted you but you take every opportunity to denigrate me and other Apple users. Why is that? I think that perhaps the arrogance is yours.

Way I see it, the electorate is always "right".

So if the electorate in your neighborhood votes to hang your black neighbor from the tree in front of your yard, you'd go along with them because they're always right?

Remember, Adolph Hitler was elected to office.

[Doohickey]

This question isn't really relevant to this thread.

You're right.

[ChildOfThe60s]

Jeez, what an attitude. Take some prozac and find a hobby.

[ShawTaylor]

"Your posts are filled with such fallacies. Here's one:

There goes that unmitigated arrogance from the Apple fanboy critters again"

Where is the fallacy in that?
You essentially called people who buy PC's "lemmings", just because they don't buy what you think is the "right" computer (an Apple computer no doubt?)
That is arrogance of the extreme kind.


"So if the electorate in your neighborhood votes to hang your black neighbor from the tree in front of your yard, you'd go along with them because they're always right?"

Nice try.
They don't hold elections for something that is against the law.
Elections in free and democratic countries are held in a lawful manner wthin the law, with propositions that are within the law.
More than that, the examples you gave before were for last November's election of the RATS into power in congress, and who 70 million voters vote for in France.
Your attempt at changing the topic is not working.


"Remember, Adolph Hitler was elected to office."

And so was Lincoln, Gorge Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, Winston Churchil and a whole lot of great leaders.
The trouble with Hitler was not so much that he was elected into power (the Germans had very good reasons to elect him into power at the time), it was that once elected into power, he turned round and became a dictator.
More than that, the fact that Hitler got elected into power doesn't make democracy "wrong", anymore than the fact that OJ Simpson was found "not guilty", made trial buy jury "wrong".
Your fallacies are piling up by the minute.

[ShawTaylor]

"Take some prozac and find a hobby"

By all means..so far as you do the same..for the next 50 years.
Then I might give your proposition some though.
Heaven knows you need it.

[KoRn]

" You're right."

And you didn't answer it. =)

[Swordmaker]

"There goes that unmitigated arrogance from the Apple fanboy critters again"

Where is the fallacy in that?
You essentially called people who buy PC's "lemmings", just because they don't buy what you think is the "right" computer (an Apple computer no doubt?) That is arrogance of the extreme kind.

No, I did not call people who buy PC's "lemmings," Shaw. I made a statement about Lemmings agreeing on their path, one that still lead to a cliff they all ran off. My point was that although all of them agreed on their route, it was not necessarily the RIGHT choice. Perhaps YOU merely inferred that it referred to PC buyers because, perhaps, unconsciously, you recognize the similarities??. I made an analogy. It did not attack any person. I did not attack you. I am merely pointing out the flaws in your arguments and the fallacies that underly those flaws.

I told you what the fallacy was. The fallacy in your statement about "Apple fanboy critters" are the last two words of that phrase which you aimed at ME and others who have chosen to use a computing platform that YOU did not chose. That is the classical fallacy of Argumentum ad Hominem: attacking the person, not the arguments. That's three times you've attacked me rather than the facts or opinions under discussion. I am not a "boy" nor am I a "critter", both words you intend for others to interpret that I, and other Mac users, are somehow less than credible or intelligent, whose opinions and arguments are not worthy of respect. That is a fallacy that would get you demerits in any formal debate... and repeated use would cause you to lose.

. . . .who 70 million voters vote for in France.

The quote "Can 70 million Frenchmen be wrong" is a classic example of the fallacy of Argumentum ad Numerum or Argumentum ad Popularum. It means that just because large numbers of people believe something to be true does not make it true.

I am sorry. I assumed you would recognize it. My apologies. (In the interests of honesty, the first three sentences in this paragraph are also a subtle form of Argumentum ad Hominem - from me, implying that you are not educated. Therefore, I retract it.) ;^)>

[jammer]

Sales may be going very well, but you don't demonstrate it. Give some numbers. What do you expect Balmer to say, "sales are very poor. Sorry there's so much hype?"