**LIVE Thread - State of the Union Address [starting at approx. comment 400]

http://www.cspan.org/ ^ | 1-23-07

[CharlesWayneCT]

Well, we need to eat as well, but government doesn't offer tax deductions for the cost of my big mac.

Anyway, almost ANYBODY could be kept alive for years longer than they will otherwise live. All it would take is to spend about a million dollars on end-of-life care. Hire special counselors, a live-in nurse, give them all the latest drugs, and people can live longer.

Fact is, we all die sometime, and for many your time of death will be based on how much money you make. Hey, it might not be "fair", but there isn't a fair system, and at least this system has rules that are understood.

Government's job is NOT to make sure I get appropriate health care, even if it means I will die. Government has a limited number of assigned tasks, and should focus on those tasks.

[nopardons]

Good grief, you make the 1950s sound like the 1750s, for crying out loud and they weren't! And most, if not all union shops were giving FREE health care to the employees and had been since the late 1940s.

Folks died "relatively young"? In the 1950s? How young is "relatively young"........70? Or are you talking about people dying from illnesses that they can now be saved from, due to great strides in the medical profession, which has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with health insurance?

[nopardons]

Exactly so! :-)

[flaglady47]

If you are in a zero tax bracket, the tax deduction has no value.

That is true. They get their health insurance free through Medicaid or Medicare, don't they. And we pay for it.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I'm not trying to be flip, but I think about a dozen of my posts were variations on a theme I'm working on about this plan. Probably the easiest thing would be to click on my name to go to my home page, and then click on "in forum", and look at my posts from the past couple of hourse, they are all in this forum.

I apologize for not being able to go back and reference them, but it's late and I'm just finishing up making sure I've answered those who posted back to me before going to bed.

[Chena]

I agree. Thank you, nopardons. :)

[flaglady47]

does your employer pay more than 7500/yr (single) for your health ins.?

If so that is a unusually good health ins plan.

I have no idea as there was never a need to check on it until now that Bush has proposed his plan. But even if it were over 7500/yr, and an unusually good one, does that then make it a target for the IRS and our gov't to come and tax it? Any pot of gold will do? It's just so anti-conservative in philosophy. It's what the Dems do, tax anything in sight. In my state (IL) our Dem Governor (Blagojevich) has been ripping off our pension plans (state). He sees this big cache of money as the perfect pot to dip into to finance his free health insurance for all children of Illinois plan. Do you see a theme here? Similarities?

[Texasforever]

That is true. They get their health insurance free through Medicaid or Medicare, don't they. And we pay for it.

You say you are retired. Are you one of those that get your health-care "free" through Medicare?

[cleveland gop]

Alright I'll try this again.

If we had REAL WELFARE REFORM, healthcare, among other things could be affordable for ALL. How is this possible. Simple trickle down economics.
I'll illustrate using Ohio as an example. The business climate in this state SUCKS, for lack of a better word. Why? Because the taxing rates in this state are ridiculously HIGH. The reason for that is because we're taking care of too many people who get paid NOT TO WORK, along with a workers' comp system that's a joke, putting more able-bodied people off the payrolls.......everyone knows what I mean!!!!!!
And I don't even mention in this argument those who mentally or physicially cannot sustain themselves. Those we take care of, simple as that!!!

OK. You force people to work for a living. Companies looking to house new or existing business take notice and set up shop in our great state. Employees find said jobs, become taxpayers. Local, state and federal tax revenues go way up, while spending goes way down because you've eliminated the welfare benefit(for the most part).
Now companies have lots of new employees who need health insurance. Health insurance companies recognize this and must attract new clients. How? By climbing over one another offering better plans, lower premiums and services. Again, with fewer people not having access to healthcare, hospitals aren't absorbing as many people that can't pay their bill, leading to seemingly LOWER PRICES and better services.

So now we have tax revenues up, spending down more people with health coverage who NEVER had it before. Now premiums fall for everyone. I'd be willing to bet the policy I have with my sister(she's 51, I'm 41 in a couple of months)wouldn't be over $800/month, but somewhere in the $500/month range with better co-pays and deductibles to boot.

Oh, one last advantage of all of this. Instead of 28-33% tax rates, how about 15% flat rate????? Remember all the new taxpayers on the payroll. And property taxes wouldn't have to be raised every time a school levy is put to vote, as it's done in this state!!!
More local and state taxes to take care of this too!!!!!!!

I think this makes much sense!!!!!
Don't you???????

[CharlesWayneCT]

What if the 20,000 additional troops doesn't work, because the correct thing is 100,000? Does failing at 20,000 mean we are forbidden to put 100,000 in and fix it? Do we have to fail just because he's used up his "tries"?

This isn't a football game where there is 60 minutes and the game is over. This is a real life war where, if what we try this week doesn't work, we actually have to figure out what to do next week.

And for the forseeable future, whatever we choose will be better than the alternative of "pull out the troops and turn Iraq and it's oil over to Al Qaeda". Even if it's costing us a thousand troops a year, that's a fair price to pay for NOT having Saddam or Iraq giving WMD to our enemies, or having their oil revenue paying for suicide bombers in Israel.

[nopardons]

You're welcome and it was my pleasure, to do it! :-)

What on earth is FR coming to, when someone is trashed for the TIME they post a reply? Good grief!

[flaglady47]

I am curious how you got all of this information and so quickly formed a negative opinion. Granted I've been busy with school work this week, but I have heard virtually nothing until today.

Because I have been watching one talking head program after another, on a variety of channels, all day long today, talking about his speech and his new policy initiatives, with the breakdown of them, and those channels include Fox, PMSNBC, and CNN. So the info was from a variety of sources and broken down by a variety of people. So I've got a pretty good idea now of what's going down here. And I don't like what I've heard. That along with reading articles on the web about this.

[Shortstop7]

You just react to my comments rather than read them, don't you. I'm to the right of Bush, he is verging on being a RINO too often, ok? A Rockefeller Republican, just like his dad. You aren't conservative enough, because you think Bush is one when he's not, and hasn't been, right along.

Would you just ask my questions? Not a hard concept, ya know. I'm not conservative enough? Okay...tell me who? Who do YOU support? What conservative? You are as bad as the Dims, no ideas, no agenda, just rabble rousing......

[nopardons]

I'd check on that, if I were you.

I happen to know, for an absolute fact, that it was the unions, right after WW II, that FORCED the health care stuff! Did nonunion companies follow suit, later, yes, they did; but, it wasn't their own thought.

[Candor7]

Thats Texas humor. "Madam" has two distinct meanings in Texas. One is M'am, and the other is Madam, as in manager of a house of ill repute. I caught it.

Pelosi is a whore monger!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Eric Blair 2084]

Bush isn't good on immigration, although he is doing exactly what he said he would do during his campaign.

But he doesn't support amnesty, or at least he would prefer a program that is NOT amnesty -- I fear he will go along with amnesty if that's what the democrats send up.
___________________________________________________

This is a pet peave of mine. I'm sure that the Free Market business interestS that are whispering in his ear are saying, "we love the cheap labor." THAT'S GOOD.

But I sincerely hope he doesn't believe that if he gives every Latino illegal amnesty and voting priveleges that they will remember it was the Republicans who gave them their freedom. Once Jose and Maria realize that they can vote themselves some rewards from the public treasury to pay for Jose Jr. and their ________ (fill in the blank), THEY WILL VOTE DEMOCRAT DOWN THE LINE.

THAT'S BAD.

[flaglady47]

"Oh yes, and for crying out loud.......learn how to make paragraphs! Your post was just about unreadable; not that it was worth the bother to read. LOL"

Then stop reading and responding to my comments. It would be a relief. One less non-thinker to have to deal with. Oh, LOL.

[nopardons]

tsk, tsk, tsk..........that projection complex of yours is getting worse, I see. Please use your gilt-edge health care benefit to pay for a good doctor.

[STARWISE]

[joyce11111]

I LOVE W