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If We Fail ......(Victor Davis Hanson: Been there, done that)
NRO ^ | January 19, 2007 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 01/19/2007 5:46:29 AM PST by IrishMike

Most Americans accept that if the United States cannot stabilize Iraq, and, in frustration and acrimony, withdraws in defeat, crises follow. The only disagreement is over how bad they will be. Some point to the aftermath of Vietnam and, mirabile dictu, think the world eventually went on pretty much the same. In this rosy view, the preordained end of the Cold War made the communist postwar Vietnamese increasingly entrepreneurial, and thus more pro-American than friendly to their erstwhile Chinese patrons.

Others, more soberly I think, recall instead in the interval the million-plus of boat-people, exiles, the executed, and detained — and the aftershocks that killed millions more in Afghanistan, Cambodia, and Central America, once it was established that the United States would not, or could not, thwart Communist aggression. The Iranian hostage-taking and the rise of radical Islam itself were predicated on the idea that a post-Vietnam America would not intervene against terrorists, whether in Tehran or Lebanon. And Vietnam, of course, today is no South Korea, as millions there without freedom could attest.

The Ripple Effect Be that as it may, we sometimes forget that there are also more insidious ripples that can emanate from Iraq. I can think of three for starters, all with post-Vietnam echoes.

The first will be the effect on the Democratic party itself, now riding high in its antiwar invective. Yet for a quarter century after Vietnam its antiwar hysteria warped its stance on issues such as the military, retaliation abroad for attacks on America, and the use of force in general.

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; congress; democrats; electionpresident; iran; iraq; islam; jihad; muslims; nuclear; religionofpieces; terrorism; vdh; victordavishanson; wot
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1 posted on 01/19/2007 5:46:31 AM PST by IrishMike
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To: IrishMike
The war on terror is going to go on for a very LONG time, and we CANNOT fail.

Somebody had better get really busy fighting the Muslims in this country. They are getting bolder and more and more vocal.

Be afraid, very afraid.
2 posted on 01/19/2007 5:52:56 AM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: IrishMike
Wow, a keeper from Hanson. He NAILS it! One of my favorite parts:

Instead Howard Dean’s once-pathetic yeehawing has now infected the likes of Senators Boxer, Durbin, Kennedy, Kerry, and Rockefeller, who have respectively rebuked Condoleezza Rice for childlessness, compared our troops to Pol Pot, Nazis, and terrorists, assured that our soldiers are no different from Baathist killers at Abu Ghraib, and suggested that things in Iraq were once better under Saddam.

3 posted on 01/19/2007 5:56:39 AM PST by randita
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To: mariabush

The war on terror is going to go on for a very LONG time, and we CANNOT fail.
.
.
.
.
Generations, and W has said this from jump !
The MSM nearly has the American population (except for us) at the stage where 9-11 was our fault and it's history.


4 posted on 01/19/2007 5:56:45 AM PST by IrishMike (MORE SURGE, Moqtada Al Sadr needs killing.)
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To: mariabush
Yes...we are letting the politicians run this war...something I thought we learned not to do in Vietnam....I am getting disgusted that politics have entered into this war...and it is a war..it is a religious war...and the Politicians just don't get it...mostly the Democrats..but some Republicans are whining too..it disgusts me...
5 posted on 01/19/2007 6:01:37 AM PST by Youngman442002
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To: mariabush

Call up Demo Dick.


6 posted on 01/19/2007 6:02:22 AM PST by wastedyears ("Gun control is hitting your target accurately." - Richard Marcinko)
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To: mariabush

Everything VDH mentions in this piece, we Freepers have recognized and known from the beginning. I am just about mentally exhausted. You try explaining this to people and they just do not or will not get it. I use to think it was me - maybe I was not articulate enough, maybe it was my manner. Over the years, I have listened and read from people much smarter than I. VDH for one. Rush, Mark Levin, Mark Steyn, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Alan Keyes. Of all the talk and articles, I have not seen or heard one liberal change their views. It's amazing. The muslim cabbies in Minnesota do not want people in their cabs with alchohol containers. Yet, every time I go to Sam's or Costco, I see them in there, walking amongst the bottles of beer and wine. I heard on the news this week that - I believe it is Northwestern - the muslims want a separate prayer room at sports facilities so they may pray. But no one mentions that if they are so devout why are they in a location that serves alcohol and pork? The world has gone crazy and the anit-American libs want to see American defeated.


7 posted on 01/19/2007 6:07:19 AM PST by 7thson (I've got a seat at the big conference table! I'm gonna paint my logo on it!)
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To: mariabush
we CANNOT fail.

Sure we can. We won't be defeated in battle, but it is quite likely we will quit and go home.

8 posted on 01/19/2007 6:10:44 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: IrishMike
This piece sums it up nicely. The price for the US losing will be infinitely higher than the price of Islam losing.
9 posted on 01/19/2007 6:11:56 AM PST by WorkerbeeCitizen (Religion of peace my arse - We need a maintenance Crusade - piss on Islam)
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To: IrishMike
In their hatred of Presiddent Bush, the Democrats may reap a legacy that seriously limits a future Democratic President's ability to pursue a muscular foreign policy in support of idealistic and high minded objectives, such as say, stopping the bloodshed in Darfur.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

10 posted on 01/19/2007 6:13:38 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: IrishMike
Howard Dean’s once-pathetic yeehawing has now infected the likes of Senators Boxer, Durbin, Kennedy, Kerry, and Rockefeller, who have respectively rebuked Condoleezza Rice for childlessness, compared our troops to Pol Pot, Nazis, and terrorists, assured that our soldiers are no different from Baathist killers at Abu Ghraib, and suggested that things in Iraq were once better under Saddam.
We must never forget how truly evil and treasonous these people are.

And I truly believe that the reason Bush can't get his "message" across on Iraq, is that he's not addressing the issue of treason head-on.

11 posted on 01/19/2007 6:15:41 AM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman
Negotiate..negotiate..negotiate....If I hear that one more time I am going to die....YOU CAN NOT NEGOCIATE WITH TERRORISTS...READ WHAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN

They want to kill us all..the infidels...
12 posted on 01/19/2007 6:19:28 AM PST by Youngman442002
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To: IrishMike
The Ripple Effect


Rather understated term to describe the effects of the US turning its back on its allies in the 70's. Looks like the Israelis, Kurds, Saudis, and the non-nazi muslims are about to be rippled to death at the hands of the traitorous Rat party(with a little help from the RINOs).
13 posted on 01/19/2007 6:22:35 AM PST by crazyhorse691 (The faithful will keep their heads down, their powder dry and hammer at the enemies flanks.)
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To: 7thson

We are a military family! Enough said about frustration.


14 posted on 01/19/2007 6:44:07 AM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: goldstategop
In their hatred of Presiddent Bush, the Democrats may reap a legacy that seriously limits a future Democratic President's ability to pursue a muscular foreign policy in support of idealistic and high minded objectives, such as say, stopping the bloodshed in Darfur.

Darfur is not on their radar screen. After all, that's just Christians being massacred there.

Do we detect a wee bit of sarcasm here?

15 posted on 01/19/2007 6:51:43 AM PST by thulldud ("Para ingl├ęs, oprima el dos.")
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To: IrishMike
Before this war ends, two things will have to happen.

At least one American city will be destroyed.

The last red-diaper, Woodstock Baby Boomer will have to die of old age.

Both are required, before America grows up again. And before anyone yells at me, I know full well that there are millions of patriotic Boomers who served their country well, and lived productive lives. But an entire age group will have to die of natural causes before we can get back to being what we were meant to be, before everything got horribly side-tracked, during the Summer of Love.
16 posted on 01/19/2007 6:53:16 AM PST by horse_doc
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To: IrishMike

Saw Newt with Colmes last night... he had a great answer to Colmes accusation that Pres Bush keeps "moving the goalposts" on what "victory" really is in Iraq. Newt responded (paraphrasing from memory), "We may not know exactly what victory is, but we all know what defeat would look like, and what it would do to Iraq."


17 posted on 01/19/2007 6:56:02 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: goldstategop

This is the key point. The Democrats have made their bed. Obambi, the Clintons, each in their turn could have joined Joe Lieberman in shouting down the Michael Moores and Cindy Sheehans of the Democratic Party. However, they understood that their angry Left is a Monied Left and even an earnest young man like Obambi understands how far he can take "bipartisanship".

There will come a time when a Democratic President wants to act and he will need Republicans. We not only won't be there for him, we will actively oppose him or her. This is the price that is to be paid for years of Democratic rhetoric. "Bush Lied, They Died" is a slur that comes with a price tag.

Not that Bush's policies have encouraged bipartisanship: Bush could have reached out more than he did. He didn't. But he never stooped to actually encouraging hatred of his political opponents.

Democrats will think they can run foreign policy without us for a while, but the wheels will come off, eventually. And we won't be there to pick up the pieces.

Be Seeing You,

Chris


18 posted on 01/19/2007 7:02:51 AM PST by section9 (Major Motoko Kusanagi says, "Jesus is Coming. Everybody look busy...")
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To: horse_doc

Sort of like how God made the Jews wander around the desert for 40 years before letting them enter the land of plenty. Had to remove the obstacles.


19 posted on 01/19/2007 7:03:58 AM PST by 7thson (I've got a seat at the big conference table! I'm gonna paint my logo on it!)
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To: Teacher317

Saw Newt with Colmes last night
.
.
.
I saw it, it was good.
Newt's a good man.
The personnal baggage is an election killer.
Our loss.


20 posted on 01/19/2007 7:05:26 AM PST by IrishMike (MORE SURGE, Moqtada Al Sadr needs killing.)
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