Romney Retreats On Gun Control (RINO alert)

The Boston Globe ^ | January 14, 2007 | Scot Helman

[JRochelle]

ORLANDO , Fla. -- Former governor Mitt Romney, who once described himself as a supporter of strong gun laws, is distancing himself from that rhetoric now as he attempts to court the gun owners who make up a significant force in Republican primary politics.

In his 1994 US Senate run, Romney backed two gun-control measures strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups: the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on certain assault weapons.

"That's not going to make me the hero of the NRA," Romney told the Boston Herald in 1994.

At another campaign stop that year, he told reporters: "I don't line up with the NRA."

And as the GOP gubernatorial candidate in 2002, Romney lauded the state's strong laws during a debate against Democrat Shannon O'Brien. "We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them," he said. "I won't chip away at them; I believe they protect us and provide for our safety."

Today, as he explores a presidential bid, Romney is sending a very different message on gun issues, which are far more prominent in Republican national politics than in Massachusetts.

snip/

On Wednesday, Romney said on an Internet podcast, "The Glenn and Helen Show," that he hopes states would continue to ease regulations on gun owners, and he expressed enthusiasm for guns and hunting. "I have a gun of my own. I go hunting myself. I'm a member of the NRA and believe firmly in the right to bear arms," Romney said.

Asked by reporters at the gun show Friday whether he personally owned the gun, Romney said he did not. He said one of his sons, Josh, keeps two guns at the family vacation home in Utah,....

[Pan_Yans Wife]

We're not even hunters and we have three... It seems like a duty, as a citizen, to have guns safely stored in your home.

[AFA-Michigan]

Jeff Fuller writes: Can we quit it with this Kerry-like "Flip-flop" comparison? A "flip-flop" means to change ones position "the flip" and then to change it back "the flop". Kerry had tons of true "flip-flops" (I was against the war before I was for it before I was against it . . .) Romney has matured politically and seen the benefits of conservatism (call that a "flip" if you want . . . but there's no evidence of "flip-flops".)

---

Jeff, you cannot possibly really be this delusional.

I see, Mitt has to change his position TWICE to qualify as a flip-flopper. OK, by that standard, here are two:

1. Republican...then Independent...then Republican
2. Pro-life...then pro-choice...then pro-life

But for most non-delusional folks, just flipping from one position to its diametric opposite qualifies as a flip-flop:

3. For gays in the military...now against
4. For Kennedy's federal "gay rights" law...now against

Then there are the equally disturbing evasions or issues he HASN'T flip-flopped on:

5. Against Boy Scout ban on homosexuals....still against?
6. For federal Assault Weapons Ban...still for it.
7. For Brady Bill...now won't say where he stands
8. For tax-paid benefits to the partners of homosexual govt. employees...apparently still for them

Not sure how to characterize this one:

Against first state marriage amendment that banned homosexual "marriage," civil unions, or domestic partnerships...for second state marriage amendment that banned homosexual "marriage" but constitutionally created civil unions...against that same second state marriage amendment...for third marriage amendment that bans homosexual "marriage"

Mitt Romney, like Marylou Retton, an Olympic gold-medalist in flip-flopping.

Not to mention Romney's and his campaign's pattern of innocuous little statements that are just one shade short of the truth:

1. "I own a gun," then admits he doesn't.
2. "A close relative died of an illegal abortion," then turns out the woman was not related to him
3. "Has always been pro-life," which is, of course, a flat-out lie

[spunkets]

He shot a bunny as a kid.

[sitetest]

Dear Jeff Fuller,

Sorry. Even though you seem like a nice guy, you don't get to invent the meanings of words:

flip-flop
One entry found for flip-flop.

{Merriam-Webster on-line}
Main Entry: flip-flop
Pronunciation: 'flip-"fläp
Function: noun
1 : the sound or motion of something flapping loosely
2 a : a backward handspring b : sudden reversal (as of policy or strategy)
3 : a usually electronic device or a circuit (as in a computer) capable of assuming either of two stable states
4 : a rubber sandal loosely fastened to the foot by a thong
- flip-flop intransitive verb


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
flip-flop Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[flip-flop] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, adverb, verb, -flopped, -flop·ping.
–noun
1. Informal. a sudden or unexpected reversal, as of direction, belief, attitude, or policy.
2. a backward somersault.
3. Also called flip-flop circuit. Electronics. an electronic circuit having two stable conditions, each one corresponding to one of two alternative input signals.
4. any of several similar devices having two alternative states, the change of state being caused by some input signal or by some change of input.
5. the sound and motion of something flapping, as a wind-blown shutter; a banging to and fro.
6. any backless, usually open-toed flat shoe or slipper.
7. a flat, backless rubber sandal, usually secured on the foot by a thong between the first two toes, as for use at a beach, swimming pool, etc. Compare thong, zori.
8. (in advertising) a display or presentation, usually on an easel, consisting of a series of pages hinged at the top and flipped over in sequence.
–adverb 9. with repeated sounds and motions, as of something flapping.
–verb (used without object) 10. Informal. to make a sudden or unexpected reversal, as of direction, belief, attitude, or policy: The opposition claimed that the President had flip-flopped on certain issues.
11. to execute a backward somersault.
12. to flap; bang to and fro: The door flip-flopped in the high wind.

The only question about whether Mr. Romney has flip-flopped on the homosexual agenda, abortion, and gun rights is that some folks may have known that he was an opportunist all along, and thus, for them, these reversals of policy positions weren't unexpected. As well, there is some evidence that with some of these positions, he made his opportunistic reversals over a period of a year or two, I guess to ease the shock.

Mr. Romney covers himself in shame with the latest episode.

There is less and less reason to consider voting for him.

He appears willing to say or do anything to get votes.


sitetest

[duckln]

Why nurse a defeatist attitude?

Instead of always judging a candidate by their weaknesses, why not focus on judging them by their strengths for a change?

Too many here relish looking for poison pills, doing the MSM's hatchet job for them.

[sitetest]

Dear nowandlater,

"Just like Samuel Brownback's flip on abortion (Sam was prochoice in 1994),..."

That appears to be another falsehood, or at least, highly misleading.

Here's an article from New Republic (not a media source likely to try to put a conservative Republican in a good light) that indicates that to the degree that he "converted," he had already declared himself pro-life in the 1994 primary against another pro-life Republican.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20061218&s=scheiber121806

Thus, unlike Mr. Romney, who was still endorsing Roe in 2002, Mr. Brownback was pro-life in 1994.

Furthermore, while Mr. Romney was a loud and proud member of the pro-abort coven, loudly proclaiming his commitment to the idea that it should be "a woman's choice, not the government's," even before becoming a pro-lifer, it appears that Mr. Brownback hadn't thought all that deeply about the issue. From the article:

"I'd heard from Tim Golba, a former president of Kansans for Life, who'd met with Brownback in 1994 to discuss a possible primary endorsement. According to Golba, it quickly became clear that there was little to discuss. Brownback was not only unfamiliar with the anti-abortion lexicon, he had a habit of dropping the hints used by politicians on the other side."

"Before the congressional race, Brownback had never really had to justify his abortion views. "

Thus, far from being the pro-abort champion that Mr. Romney was in 1994, it seems that Mr. Brownback was, still in his 30s, still working out his own beliefs on the issue. It appears that this election, his first run for federal office, helped him work out his views on abortion.

During the 1994 primary campaign, he campaigned as a pro-lifer.

And has been a stable, reliable pro-lifer ever since.

As well, another event that may have even strengthened his conviction was his eventual conversion to Catholicism.

No one denies that folks can mature and change.

However, on issue after issue, Mr. Romney's changes look like opportunism. He was pro-abort in 2002, having stated to pro-abort groups in Massachusetts in 2002 that the substance of Roe was correct, that there was a constitutional right to abortion. Then, after years of impassioned support for the pro-abort position, telling us that his rock-like commitment to abortion welled up from dramatic personal experience, in approximately 2004, he does an entire 180. He was pro-homosexual agenda, now he's not. He was anti-gun (and still is, in important ways), now he's not.

With Mr. Romney, we don't see a slow evolution that has resulted in a long-time stable social conservatism. Rather, we see someone who pretty much ran as a liberal in 1994 and 2002 while running in liberal Massachusetts, and then, once he decided not to run again in liberal Massachusetts, has decided to re-shape himself as a conservative, now that he wants to run for the conservative Republican Party presidential nomination.

At this point, to believe that he is sincere requres great naivete, or a desire for his election without regard to his actual positions.


sitetest

[tiger-one]

".............and seen the benefits of conservatism" Benefits of conservatism IE a new job

[Afronaut]

Opportunism is a term used in politics and political science. It forms an important rationale as well for transaction cost economics. It is interpreted in different ways, but usually refers to one or more of the following:

* a political style of aiming to increase one's political influence at almost any price, or a political style which involves seizing every and any opportunity to extend one's political influence, whenever such opportunities arise.

* the practice of abandoning in reality some important political principles that were previously held, in the process of trying to increase one's political power and influence.

* a trend of thought, or a political tendency, seeking to make political capital out of situations with the main aim being that of gaining more influence or support, instead of truly winning people over to a principled position or improving their political understanding.

Most politicians are "opportunists" to some extent at least (they aim to utilize political opportunities to their advantage), but the controversies surrounding the concept concern the exact relationship between "seizing a political opportunity" and the political principles being espoused.

[JRochelle]

LOL.

Now even I will not hold that against him.

:)

[dirtboy]

Mitt Romney would be a great candidate.

Only if you want the leftward drift of the GOP and the country to continue unabated and unchallenged.

[dirtboy]

Romney has matured politically and seen the benefits of conservatism

Needs work.

Romney has learned to play the game politically and seen the benefits of pretending to embrace conservatism so he can snooker the base during the 2008 primaries.

[nowandlater]

Well, Brownback has flip-flopped on Iraq within the last week!!! I'd say he is very opportunistic and he is a classic flip-flopper in the same vain of John Kerry.

"I voted for the troop surge before I voted against it" One week ago he was for more troops and now he is against it because it is unpopular!!!!

[nowandlater]

From Kate O'Beirne's article, Join the Club.

"When Sam Brownback was running in a GOP congressional primary in 1994, he initially rebuffed a pro-life group’s endorsement, according to a recent account in The New Republic. In that article, a former president of Kansans for Life recalls that Brownback was 'unfamiliar with the anti-abortion lexicon' 20 years after Roe v. Wade, and that Brownback described himself as 'more in line with the view of Nancy Kassebaum,' the state’s pro-choice junior GOP senator."

[sitetest]

Dear nowandlater,

"Well, Brownback has flip-flopped on Iraq within the last week!!!"

He may well have done that. I haven't paid that much attention to what Mr. Brownback has said about Iraq since Mr. Bush announced the troop surge.

However, based on your previous record of accuracy, I wouldn't take your conclusions about him as gospel truth. It could be, just as you misrepresented his views on abortion, that you've misrepresented Mr. Brownback's views on Iraq, too.

As well, I see that rather than defend your original assertion, that Mr. Brownback was pro-abort in 1994, and sometime after that, flip-flopped on the issue, you've decided to change the subject.

LOL.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear nowandlater,

You seem to be quoting from the same source as I did. And pretty much the same quotes that I quoted.

I made clear that Mr. Brownback's views were fuzzy at the beginning of the 1994 campaign.

However, it is also clear that during the primary election, he came out as a pro-lifer.

In 1994.

And has been consistently so since then.

Unlike Mr. Romney, who was a consistent pro-abort at least up until 2002.


sitetest

[nowandlater]

I think you can not slam Romney for a period of time where he did not hold office. When he held office, just like Brownback, Romney supported pro-life issues whenever they came up. I think that deserves some credit!

To me the classical flip flopper would keep changing positions during his term of office.

And another thing: Romney was a registered Independent until 1993. He was not a registered as a Republican before that (even though some claim it was his duty to be so because of his father). To accuse him of flip-flopping on this in my estimation is also misleading. Every since he has campaigned or held office he has also been loyal to the party. A demonstation of loyalty before joining the party and campaigning is in my opinion unrealistic.

[ElectricStrawberry]

PREcisely. He may be a flipper on some issues....hey may be a flopper on another....but a flip-flopper he is not.

[sitetest]

Dear nowandlater,

"I think you can not slam Romney for a period of time where he did not hold office. When he held office, just like Brownback, Romney supported pro-life issues whenever they came up. I think that deserves some credit!"

Zero credit. Period.

It is not necessarily "pro-life" to tinker around the edges of the issue. It is all very nice that a politician, while endorsing the basic legal regime of abortion on demand, might wish to place extremely modest limits on the abortion license, but that doesn't make the politician pro-life, only less-radically pro-abort.

There is a dramatic difference between someone who wants, as an example, to ban partial birth abortion as one small step on the road to protecting ALL unborn children in law, and someone who is generally in favor of legal abortion, but would nonetheless ban the outrage of partial birth abortion. The former politician is pro-life. The latter is pro-abort, albeit not at the absolute extreme.

Up until 2004, Mr. Romney was the latter - a pro-abort. Now he wishes us to believe he is pro-life. I'm not persuaded.

"And another thing: Romney was a registered Independent until 1993. He was not a registered as a Republican before that (even though some claim it was his duty to be so because of his father). To accuse him of flip-flopping on this in my estimation is also misleading. Every since he has campaigned or held office he has also been loyal to the party. A demonstation of loyalty before joining the party and campaigning is in my opinion unrealistic."

Certainly he's flip-flopped on major issues!

Again, you're trying to change the subject. I didn't mention anything about party affiliation or loyalty thereto. It is Mr. Giuliani who really has a problem there, having endorsed major Democrat candidates while serving as an allegedly Republican mayor.

No, where Mr. Romney flip-flops isn't in terms of party affiliation, but on the issues.

He was adamantly pro-abort up until 2002. Then, around 2004, he became pro-life, or so he says. He was pro-homosexual agenda, now he says he's not, although trying to parse his views there isn't child's play. He was anti-Second Amendment up until at least 2002, even going so far as to say that the NRA wouldn't be happy with him, and still favors an assault weapons ban, which is an entirely unsupportable position, but he says now that he's pro-Second Amendment, and a MEMBER of the NRA.

I'm getting whiplash just thinking about this guy's u-turns.


sitetest

[MikeA]

Why is it such a mystery to you people that when one runs for office in a state like Massachusetts you have to make certain compromises to win?? It happens in politics all the time. Get a grip. Mitt's a conservative. Let me guess, Ron Paul or Duncan Hunter is who we should support. LOL. Sorry, I'm not going to be stupid and vote for totally unelectable candidates and have another 8 years of Clinton. You people foisted a Clinton on us in 1992 by voting for Perot. Hopefully we're not all so stupid we're going to support nobody candidates again. Mitt is plenty conservative. Stop obsessing about 13 year old statements. Focus on his ACTUAL record as governor where he did little with gun control. Sheesh, you people in the "Cut off your nose to spite your face crowd." You just can't wait to have Hillary Clinton as president.

[MikeA]

And give me a break, that he isn't the owner of a gun is REALLY what is going to determine who you support?? Yeah, Ron Paul the Al Qaedaite traitor who supports Al qaeda's goals of expelling the US from Iraq in a humiliating retreat owns a gun! SO LET'S VOTE FOR THE GUY WHO'S POSITION ON IRAQ IS IDENTICAL TO MURTHA'S BECAUSE HE OWNS A GUN! What geniuses you people are. Talk about a RINO. At least Mitt Romney is a patriot who doesn't demoralize our troops by helping to divide the nation on the war and emboldens Al Qaeda by so doing. That to me is more important than who is the actual owner of the family guns in the Romney home. Good gosh you people are short-sighted as hell.

And keep dreaming that Romney has no chance even as he climbs in the polls and your boys Duncan Hunter of Bin Paul are still asterixes. LMAO. You're one of the 10 people supporting these two nobodys! TOO FUNNY!!!