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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

I'm starting to get the idea that, although some reasoning is put forth, the author doesn't really understand exactly where Greek anti Americanism comes from. 'Course, I personally am ignorant on the subject, so perhaps I shouldn't be giving an opinion. I am starting to get that impression, though.


35 posted on 01/12/2007 2:07:14 PM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: Sam Cree
Brabant seems pretty thorough (opinion). He starts at Yalta, goes on to American support of an unpopular dictatorship, mentions American support for Turkey and interference in the Cyprus conflict, and outlines Greek opposition to the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq (something they have in common with many of their fellow EUers).

However, also have relatively little information about this topic.

37 posted on 01/12/2007 2:14:41 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, Townhall.com, Brietbart.com, and Drudge Report are not valid news sources.)
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To: Sam Cree
Sam Cree, the idea you are getting is 100% correct and why am I NOT surprised from a lopsided uninformed article such as the BBC posted with an agenda at hand. First off all Greece, through out its existances in the 20th century, is one of the three countries that SIDED with the US in every major conflict that has taken place and don't tell me Iraq because they even sided and gave as much support to the US on that as well, given that they had to put all their resources in protecting the Olympic games, or do people believe that American warships and air craft that are being stationed off the coast of Greece are there as tourist attractions?

According to this OFFICIAL statment by a governing body of the United States of America:

"Whereas, Greece is now one of only three nations in the world, beyond the former British Empire, that has been allied with the United States in every major international conflict in the twentieth century, including World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Desert Storm, and the Balkans;"

"Whereas, Greece played a major role in the World War II struggle to protect freedom and democracy through such bravery as was shown in the historic Battle of Crete and in Greece, presenting the Axis land war with its first major setback; and,

"Whereas, The author of a military history said, “The campaign in Greece and in Crete forced Hitler to postpone the invasion of Russia…and to fight a winter campaign…which brought Hitler’s war machine to a standstill”; and,

"Whereas, The government of Greece has declared its solidarity with the American people and has pledged to back efforts to combat and eradicate terrorism in the aftermath of terror attacks on the United States of America; and,

"Whereas, Greece and the United States are at the forefront of the effort for freedom, democracy, peace, stability and human rights; forging a close bond between our two nations and their peoples; and,

"Whereas, March 25th, 2003, marks the 182nd Anniversary of the beginning of the revolution that freed the Greek people from the Ottoman Empire; and now therefore be it

"Resolved, That I, Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of the State of Michigan do hereby proclaim March 25, 2003, Greek Independence Day in Michigan in honor of the democratic principles from which our two great nations were born.

~Office of the Governer of Michigan

For those who need a history lesson Greece was fighting in WWII and setting up strong residence against the Axis LONG before the US even got involved. Last time I checked Turkey "wiped her hands" and played the "neutral" game during WWII...until they saw how the wind blew and all of the sudden took the Allies side. How pathetic and Greeks are suppose to be the "cowards" right? YEah right, history has proven unother wise and I will be more then happy to provide proof of this. Greece was pulled into the war in October 28, 1940; the US didn't get involved until the attack on Peril Harbor December 7, 1941...that's over a year after Greece was fighting on the side of the Allies. OR need I remind everyone that it was little Greece who showed the world that the Axis were not as unbeatable as everyone thought they were.

"The unbelievable strong resistance of the Greeks delayed by two or more vital months the German attack against Russia; if we did not have this long delay, the outcome of the war would have been different in the eastern front and in the war in general, and others would have been accused and would be occupying this seat as defendants today". ~ Adolf Hitler's Chief of Staff Field Marshall Wilhelm Keitel

"Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks". ~ Winston Churchill

"In the name of the captured yet still alive French people, France wants to send her greetings to the Greek people who are fighting for their freedom. The 25th of March, 1941 finds Greece in the peak of their heroic struggle and in the top of their glory. Since the battle of Salamis Greece had not achieved the greatness and the glory which today holds". ~ French general Charles de Gaulle

Oh and lets NOT forget that GREECE was the ONLY country to officially protest to Hilter the deportation of Jews from and the first to start doing something about it.

http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/?en/news/2953/2992.htm

Ah and some want to talk about the liberation of Greece from the Ottomans well here you go:

""Whereas, Greek Commander in Chief Petros Mavromichalis, a founder of the modern Greek state, said to the citizens of the United States in 1821, “It is in your land that liberty has fixed her abode…in imitating you, we shall imitate our ancestors and be thought worthy of them if we succeed in resembling you;"

http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-23442_25488_28109-71915--,00.html

Oh and lets not forget it was JUST a few years ago where they turned American troops back from crossing over Turkish Airspace during the most recent conflict with Iraq. Guess to which closest ports most American warships are located at this moment:

"The US Navy and Greece in the Twentieth and Twenty-First Centuries: ~ The suppression of Greek piracy and the achievement of Greek independence in 1830 did not, however, mean the end of Greek-American naval relations, nor of US Navy operations to suppress global piracy. While the frigate Hellas was blown up in 1831 during an internal Greek revolt, in 1914 the United States sold to the Greek government the US Navy battleships Mississippi and Idaho, which became Kilkis and Lemnos. US Navy ships helped evacuate Greek refugees from Smyrna in 1922.19 From 1945 through 1949, US Navy warship visits and naval advisory assistance helped keep Greece free from Communism during the Greek Civil War.20 Since Greece joined NATO in 1951, US Navy and Greek Navy warships have participated together in numerous bi-lateral and multilateral allied exercises over the decades, as well as serving together since 1992 (STANAVFORMED). US Navy warships provided humanitarian relief to Greek citizens following the earthquakes of 1953 and 1955, and have routinely assisted the crews of Greek-owned merchant ships during disasters at sea.21 Also, during the 1990-1991 Gulf War, Greek Navy warships operated in the strait of Tiran alongside ships of the US, French, and Spanish navies, to enforce the United Nations embargo of Iraq.22 A decade later, the Greek Navy participated in the international war on terrorism by providing logistic support at Souda Bay and by helping to patrol the Eastern Mediterranean and Arabian seas following the Al Qaeda attacks on New York and Washington on September 11, 2001.23 Thus, the US Navy and the Greek Navy have continued to operate together, carrying out the policies of their governments and demonstrating the congruence of those policies on many occasions."

And don't forget it was for Greek war hero, who was also a recepient of Americas highest military award, the Metal of Honor, yes he served not only in the Greek Army but the American Army too, that an outraged President Warren G. Harding sent the warship USS Litchfield half way across the world to Turkey in September 1922 to recover the bodily remains of George Dilboy. Harding also demanded an apology and the American flag from the Turkish government over their marauding attacks of the WWI hero. He got both. Dilboy wasn't born in the United States but fought for BOTH the USA and Greece in every major conflict war from the First Balkan War of 1912; to the Second Balkan War of 1913 on the side of Greece; on the side of the USA during the Mexican Border War in 1916-1917 and during World War I were he was killed.

Don't believe that "anti-Americansim" is the norm in Greece with the majority of the population, unlike what that misinformed article says, its not and people should not forget that in the last elections the general population DID NOT elect a socialist party into office but a conservetive one with strong ties to the USA even when Greece DOES get shafted at times, and Greece has gotten shafted by the States MANY OF TIMES since the early 1900's, by various American Presidential Administrations, the last two comes to mind with the whole FYROMian issue, Greece STILL supports and has supported USA in global causes no matter what. The emphasis in that article about should be pointed out is on "backed by leftist groups" in other words commies, local anti-globalization groups", that's what one calls the local SOCIALIST aka left-wing groups aka Commies in Greece and those "youths" are the same bunch of hooligans one would find at ANY ralley that is against anything that has to do with the establishment PERIOD, in other words you can have the World Pet Beauty Competition in Athens and these idiots would be out there protesting. Oh and to the individual who made the connection by commies and the Orthodos church...do you even realize how illogical that comments sounds? First off communism has NOTHING to do with the Orthodox roots be it Greek or Russian for the simple reason that COMMUNISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IN RELIGION AND VIEW RELIGION AS THE ENEMY. Do you know how many Orthodox priests were hung and killed by the commies? You might as well claim the Nazis had strong connection with the Jews in their causes. What people seem to fail to understand is the Greek "Anti-Americanism" which some like to label the majority of Greeks having is nothing but BS, and I can't believe someone actually used the Ekathimerini as their supposed "source" in another thread ~ THE EKATHIMERINI who are the equivalent to what CNN is in their "unbias" reporting. Yeah there is "anti-Americanism" in certain elements of the Greek public, mostly towards the back stabbing that certain American Administrations have given to one of the THREE countries in this world who has supported American causes through out every single major conflict in the 20th centuries AND CONTINUES to support it.

Last time I checked it was Turkey which did not allow American troops in its country for the attack against Iraq, trying to derail US military strategy in Iraq, not Greece. The following quote was made by an American political counselor of the US embassy in Athens:"Greeks like inflammatory rhetoric from their politicians but responsible behavior from their governments.", speaks to the heart of the matter as to why the Greek government has been a strong allie of US in every modern conflict. Despite the myths some like to spin on here, Greece, in the present war against Iraq, proved a loyal US ally. Thanks to the Greek government's blanket flight clearances and concessions on security issues, the crucial Mediterranean port and airfield of Souda Bay in Crete quietly handled thousands of US military flights and hundreds of ships en route to the Gulf. Greek military officers, eager to offer their support to the US since the start of the war in the campaign against terrorism, were cool but correct in maintaining the flow of troops and equipment. Ankara on the other hand denied for US armored division to move through Turkey to northern Iraq. BTW, all this can be found under the public information act if you search any diclassfied American government & military files.

You see talk, which SOME like to do around here, is cheap, actions that we have seen Greece do, i.e. Greece being one of few countries that has actively supported the US in every single modern conflict there has been including Afgan and Iraq wars, speak louder then words. ;p

Greece has never forgotten the help she got from the USA, who unlike most of her European brethren when they learned of American help, they demanded that USA 'butt out' from the Greek War of Independance and as Petros Mavromichalis, on May 25, 1821, put it very well:"Your virtues, Americans, are close to ours, although a broad sea separates us. We feel you closer than our neigh­boring countries and we consider you as friends, co-patriots and brothers, because yon are fair, phil­anthropic and brave."

http://www.ahepafamily.org/d5/Grk%20Inde-mar02.htm

So before people go on believing every single bull posted by certain outlets some research on a subject matter such as this should done because as it has been proven just because its written in the BBC or CNN does not mean is what actually takes place on the groung. ;)

Ah and for anyone of you who would like to see how comical the majority of the Greek population views Greek leftist groups such as the KKE and Socialist goups check out the following clip from a comedy show in Greece; the guy in the red bathing is carrying the commie flag, I forgot what the actor's name is but he always impersonates the leader of KKE, Aleka Papariga, dressed in some sort red outfit often seeing walking around with the microphone and the commie flag, calling out dumb things for Greeks to join "the party" but is usally ignorant or made fun of by the general Greek population not only in the comic clip but in real life too. ;)

http://www.aman.gr/video/video.asp?video=politikoi-paparhga_paralia.wmv

47 posted on 01/12/2007 8:40:39 PM PST by apro
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