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To: presidio9

I am always amazed by the assumption that an organization is it's hierarchy. In my view an organization is the sum total of its adherents and it hierarchy and the social network in which it operates. We saw that assumption when the Soviets decided to whack JP II. They believed that a dead JPII would end the social, economic and political threat of Catholicism to the Soviets. If JPII had died it would have made no difference in the outcome the it was the weight of All Catholics all leaning in the same direction that toppled Poland's Communists. The rest is history.

Curiously we did the same thing when we assumed the capture and death of Uday, Qusay, Saddam and Zarqawi would end the insurgency. It had no effect. Mass movements happen independantly of the hierarchy. Christ himself is a good example. I suspect hierarchy just surfs the trend. Constantine is a good example.


105 posted on 01/11/2007 12:45:30 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: tomcorn

I certainly do not believe that the Catholic Church is its heirarchy. I was referring to the heirarchy in terms of excommunication. While it is permissable for bishops to excommunicate Catholics in certain clear-cut circumstances (for instance Cardinal John Egan excommunicated John Gotti, and refused his family a Mass of Christian burial), being a pro-choice politician is more of a judgement call, because it is in and of itself a passive sin. This would require either Papal conconsideration or Church General Council in every case. Since the Church has no interest in spending all of its time examining voting records, the Pope took the unusual and intelligent step of saying "this is what is going to happen if you do this." It should be noted that said politicians are no longer able to assume a state of Grace unless they take steps to undo their earlier wrongs. As such, every time they find a nutball priest who is willing to offer them Communion, they are literally desecrating the very flesh of Christ. This is a mortal sin right up there with murder in the eyes of true Catholics. Therefore, if John Kerry or Nancy Pelosi know anything about Catholicism, they know that they are going to Hell, and they just don't care.


110 posted on 01/11/2007 1:00:22 PM PST by presidio9 (It's "news" that New Jersey smells bad?)
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