Posted on 01/09/2007 3:03:21 PM PST by presidio9
Dear the OlLine Rebel,
"If your kid couldn't control himself 'by nature' out in public (or anywhere, FTM), why is he only to control himself (be quiet, not move, etc) DURING the time out?"
Good question. I don't entirely know why it works, I only have some speculative answers. I only know it works. My own experience is that a lot of parenting is like that.
"This article implies otherwise, BTW. Most people were doing this kind of bargaining/bribing, and 'most people' were dissatisfied with results."
There is no bargaining or bribing involved. The guys know the standards, they know the consequences for not meeting the standards. They don't like the consequences, so to avoid them, they often (usually) meet the standards.
Interestingly, I seldom have to do more than make a mention of unhappiness anymore. My children are far harder on themselves when they misbehave than I am inclined to be.
"Perhaps you were just lucky to have naturally amiable, calm kids."
Perhaps.
Then perhaps the best piece of parenting I did was to pray, when we were pregnant, for good children filled with God's grace.
sitetest
--You never forget your spankings and what you did to deserve it.--
I remember several of my early childhood spankings. However, I have no idea of what brought them on.
Condi hasn't made her conservative bones. Abortion is just one of them.
This is the undeniable truth. It's like a new game; "Don't worry about it, if your parents get mad call CPS". Once CPS is involved, there is no hope for parents disciplining the child again.
No. I went public, myself. Friends who were not so, er, lucky, would tell tales of the nuns at their parochial schools; most not as dramatic.
Here's the key, though: it ONLY TAKES ONE really good story like that, to keep several successive years of students in line. A little help from a few key administrators could keep a rumor like that alive for decades.
A little fear of the not-quite-totally-known goes a very long way, indeed.
Spanking is on the 'restricted' list in Canada.
It really depends on the application, and on the child. My mother spanked me almost daily for years, and it did no good. My father spanked me twice, and I still remember both times, what I did, and why I would never do those things again. The difference was that my father was not angry when he spanked me, and he took the time to explain and get me to think about my actions. My mother swooped in from nowhere, angry, and hit, with me never figuring out what exactly I'd done to make her angry (or at least not figuring it out for a long time). The one time my mother made me sit in the time-out chair, I remember. Now, I hadn't done the thing I had to sit there for, but at least I remembered that it was a bad thing and new I'd get in trouble if I ever actually did do it.
I think it's really the inconsistent application of ANY form of discipline that makes it ineffective. How many times in the store do you see a parent with an ill-behaved child, and the parent is telling the child over and over, "Stop that, or you'll get X punishment," but the parent says it 20 times and NEVER follows through? They've taught the kid that they're really just saying, "Stop, or I'll tell you to stop again."
We had an ancient history professor at the prep school I went to (Episcopalian) who was both the greatest teacher I ever had and also a great disciplinarian.
We were all sitting around the seminar table the first day of class, around 8:00 in the morning, slumped down and half asleep, when he strode into the classroom, picked up a long pole used to open the top half of the windows, and stuck it down one offender's back, inside his jacket and shirt, which was unbuttoned under his tie.
"Wake up! Sit up straight! Pay attention." That was the last time a scene like that opening minute of the class ever had to be repeated.
I later was told that the year before, on the first day of class, he entered the room, leapt up on the table, and started waving a sword around. That also got everyone's attention. Then it was on to the Greeks and the Romans.
His name was William A. Armstrong. In one semester, he turned my entire life around.
Isn't European pagan religion and romanticism great? The obvious answer is to continue to promote adultery and exaggerated news opinions about lesser crimes. Build more prisons for the neanderthall (masculine) "males" and more corporate houses of ill repute for the other six "genders." Keep having the subservient masses of peasants in alien cultures to do most of our work.
Isn't it great? It will keep the potential competition down, and its worked for over 20 years so far.
Someone should write a book about it. How about..."Our Government Has Two Mommies." Enjoy the US fatherlessness imposed by both political parties while you can.
LOL! That's a job for a FReeper PhotoShop pro -- Condi's Extra-Strength "Look," regular or concentrated! How about the Condi Rice "Look" Scented Candle Room Freshener! The Condi "Look" Plug-In!
Maybe they took lessons from the U.N.
bttt
That's all it would take for me.
Does "time out" work when the young child 1st tries to run out in the street (and does so even with a warning)? No physicality or "yelling" needed there?
I'm dead serious about this. Time out and the like is AFTER the fact. It's not serious enough for serious things like that. Not from what I see. Not with a truly wilful, hyper, "independent" child, at least.
I'm glad in your case you didn't need it. But I doubt that is universal.
My kids listen to their mother, who is famously easy to get along with. They live in dread of not meeting her expectations. The slightest expression of sad disappointment from her is enough to cause them exquisite anguish. She's amazing.
I nor my older siblings never got any such thing as an "allowance".
My parents spent as we wished when available, when reasonable. When I was a teen, if I wanted to go somewhere they gave me money then for what might be appropriate (plus when old enough I got to drive their cars). Until I got a job (which was late, BTW). My mother in particular is also EXTREMELY fond of gifts (Christmas is a nightmare of her buying for EVERYONE, even people she sees once a year), and back as a child she might go to the pharmacy and while there pick up a fun book or something. She loved doing that.
But we never got any such thing as a regular allowance.
Notice they don't really delineate what the conclusions are.
My conclusion from what I see (never mind real life and history): time out and no privileges are minimally effective.
Dear the OlLine Rebel,
"Does 'time out' work when the young child 1st tries to run out in the street (and does so even with a warning)?"
I thought we were talking about punishment.
"No physicality or 'yelling' needed there?"
I thought we were talking about physical means of punishment. From an earlier post of yours:
"People against spanking (and I'll say HITTING,..."
Hitting isn't yelling.
I don't think I ever suggested that I wouldn't physically restrain a child from harm. I also don't think I said that I've never raised my voice to my children. I'm Italian, ya know. ;-)
However, that's different from physical punishment. Sometimes when crossing the street even today with my kids, I may unconsciously put my hand out to keep them from going into the street before I think it's safe. That's hardly a spanking or a slap.
My sons, especially the younger one, have certainly done things that required immediate physical restraint. I still didn't hit 'em. Usually, in those circumstances, they didn't get a time-out, either. Just a quick explanation that the act was dangerous, why it was dangerous, and not to do it again. Only repetition of previously-made errors merits punishment.
sitetest
I don't remember almost any of my spankings/slaps/smacks. That's how effective it was - they were few and they were basically all too early for me to recall (I only have a few memories - vague and dream-like - from before I started school at 5).
Only 1 I recall (including my parents; never mind my uncle spanking me at his house for us playing "doctor") was when my cousins and I took a nest of baby birds out of a tree and fedd them fish food on the ground nearby. When my dad and aunt and uncle found out what we were doing, they were so mad we had essentially "orphaned" little birds. We all had to run the gauntlet and got smacked on the rears well by all of them (after a bunch of hands-on-hips indignant lecturing).
Arghh! My eyes!
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