One of the Melbourne suspects is the alleged mastermind, Abu Bakr, an Algerian-Australian Muslim cleric who has been quoted as saying he would violate his faith if he did not encourage his students to join the jihad, or holy war, in Iraq.
Posted on 01/05/2007 5:13:20 PM PST by Fred Nerks
A dangerous divide is forcing Australian Muslims to abandon their homes, says Sydney cleric Feiz Mohamed in Lebanon reports Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov ----------
AUSTRALIA'S most influential firebrand cleric feels like an alien in his own country. And Sheik Feiz Mohamed is not alone. He believes a rising anti-Islamic tide has made Muslims wary of their countrymen, forcing at least eight families to abandon their homeland for the Middle East. From the foothills of his ancestral village in north Lebanon, the man with the most sway over the nation's Islamic youth says five years into the war on terror a dangerous divide exists here.
In a rare interview, Feiz, an Australian citizen, says he is apprehensive about returning home after spending more than 12 months in Lebanon caring for his ailing father.
"Imagine me going to the Opera House and taking photos," he says. "I can't walk through the airport without hundreds of eyes on me. They are like foxes trying to eat sheep.
"Before I left I was at a restaurant in Sutherland (in southern Sydney) with my wife, eating spaghetti, and we were like aliens from Mars. I said, 'Let's get out of here'.
"We are just human beings. I am not saying Australia is negative or not good, I am saying it has changed.
"There are about seven or eight families who have left in the last few months and many more who are planning to go."
(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.news.com.au ...
How can we replicate this in the U.S?
Send the muzzies to sand-land where they belong and send some courage up here so we start doing the same. Think it could be secretly added to the Fosters? I doubt that enough of us eat Vegemite to make a difference.
The protesting cab drivers and irate imams here in the west are political animals, they'd be outraged democrats if their folks had been Lutheran.
Our problem is that we have given them and the socialists that quietly or openly support them a free pass to do so.......no body has as yet slapped them up'side the face!
[mexican aliens get the same freebies - with similar results]
There are muslims here in the US who accept all of our precepts except for support to Israel and they are part of the same society as you, me, Robert Byrd, and Jerry Falwell - the only one in that list I agree with is - me.
For my part, I'd level every mosque on the continent and I'd deport any islamist cabbie who had rejected a sober & nonbelligerent customer.
But - the point of my reply - being afraid to return to the US is NOT typical of muslim travelers.
Please do not reply, I've seen too many of your posts and should have noted the personality rather than the content of the post.
Haven't experienced anything yet that makes me even think about it...one does need a permit to stage a demonstration, and the police are all over it. Our security services (ASIO) are keeping their eyes on the trouble makers, several of whom are under house arrest, many are in jail awaiting trial. Remember, out of 20 million Australians, we only have some 350,000 muslims, and the new laws in place for intending immigrants are very tight.
The government has been very quietly deporting non-citizens to their home countries...
Aside from the '4,000 Youth Group Members' that the Lebanese are threatening us with, who are mostly welfare recipient gang members dealing drugs and stealing cars, or harrassing locals (when they aren't being locked up for 45 years for taking part in pack-rapes...) we seem to have a good handle on things.
Their numbers are still too small for 'riots or advocating the violent overthrow of the government' - they have to make do with being a pain in the A$$ and insulting us at every opportunity. (We give back good or better than, we aren't at all PC.)
Over-all, the clerics and the loudmouths have made a laughing stock of themselves. I'll post a few more links to bring you up to date on the wonderful world of islam in Oz.
Australia Police Arrested 17 Terror Suspects In Raids
By Robert Raffaele
Washington, DC
08 November 2005
Police in Australia say they have foiled a plot to carry out a major terror attack, following the arrest of 17 men in raids in Australia's two largest cities. A radical Muslim cleric known for praising Osama bin Laden is among the captured suspects. He is charged with masterminding the plot. VOA's Robert Raffaele has more.
More than 500 police were involved in raids across Sydney and Melbourne. Eight men were arrested in Sydney, another nine in Melbourne. Authorities seized weapons, computers, chemicals, and backpacks.
New South Wales Police Commissioner Ken Moroney said possible bomb-making materials were found. Prosecutors say the items are similar to those used in July's terror attacks in London.
"The linkages appeared to be common in the sense of the chemicals that appeared to have been used in London and the chemicals which we will allege were being gathered, or being sought, here both in New South Wales and Victoria."
Prosecutors say the suspects are committed to violent jihad against Australians.
Supporters of the suspects clashed with television cameramen outside courthouses in Melbourne and Sydney, and
Rob Starry, an attorney for eight of the Melbourne suspects, said they were not charged with terrorism. "Although it's been suggested that they've been charged in the planning and preparation of a terrorist offense, that's not reflected in these charges, and it's not reflected in the interrogations that we know so far."
One of the Melbourne suspects is the alleged mastermind, Abu Bakr, an Algerian-Australian Muslim cleric who has been quoted as saying he would violate his faith if he did not encourage his students to join the jihad, or holy war, in Iraq.
Australia has never been hit by a major terror attack, but its citizens have been targeted overseas, particularly in neighboring Indonesia, where dozens of Australians have been killed in bomb blasts since 2002.
Last week, Prime Minister John Howard rushed through Parliament an amendment to terror laws he said would strengthen police powers to arrest anyone plotting attacks.
Melbourne police say those new powers allowed them to carry out Tuesday's raids.
One of the Melbourne suspects is the alleged mastermind, Abu Bakr, an Algerian-Australian Muslim cleric who has been quoted as saying he would violate his faith if he did not encourage his students to join the jihad, or holy war, in Iraq.
According to published sources, we have about 1.5 million muslims in the US out of a total population of about 300 million, or about 0.5%. This is actually a smaller proportion than the 1.75% you stated for Oz. However, they are plenty loud and plenty obnoxious when they are in groups!
You mean you "Skips" actually deport people?
OK, don't get your knickers twisted, that's the line I responded to, I didn't realize you were referring to the UNITED STATES, the article I posted relates to AUSTRALIA! And so do my replies...now, as to my personality, what's THAT GOT TO DO WITH IT? I rarely make personal comments. I post information. With sources.
"ostracism"
Now that's an excellent idea. I prefer humour and humiliation myself. They are asking for it.
Oh, I wish I knew! I think, first you have to get rid of CAIR! And then flush PC down the Loo!
tell me that a 'skip' means please?
that=what.
sorry
Interesting. I wonder if that 1.5 million is a true figure. I Googled:
Number of Muslims in the U.S.
Nobody knows.
This is a political hot-potato. Some non-Muslims have accused Muslims of exaggerated their numbers in order to obtain more political clout. Some Muslims have accused non-Muslims of releasing false, low numbers in order to "marginalize" Islam. 4 In religion, as in war, truth is often the first casualty.
Estimates of the number of Muslims in North America range from a little over one million adults to seven million adults and children. One cause of the disagreement appears to be related to the percentage of Muslim immigrants:
Who have abandoned Islam since they arrived in the US, or
Who still consider themselves to be Muslims, but who do not participate in mosque activities.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm
Here's another one:
POPULATION FIGURES
It is very difficult to estimate the precise number of Muslims currently living in the United States. Muslims tend to put the number somewhat higher than non-Muslim scholars and demographers; the estimated figures range widely - from around two million in one study to as many as seven million. There are several reasons for the varying estimates. First, because the U.S. Constitution mandates a separation of church and state that is reflected in American law, U.S. Census Bureau survey forms do not ask recipients about their religion. Neither does the U.S. Immigration Service collect information on the religion of immigrants. Many mosques in the United States do not have formal membership policies, and they seldom keep accurate attendance figures. In the words of University of Chicago religion scholar Martin Marty, "Counting noses has come to depend on two sources. One source is poll-takers calling during the dinner hour to ask, `What is your religious preference?' The other source is religious leaders, on both the local and the national scene. People who respond to telephone interviewers may have all kinds of motives for declaring themselves as part of this or that group, or no group at all. And people who report on the size of their congregations, denominations, and cohorts also have a variety of motives." The end result is that there is no official count of Muslims in the United States nor is there a number that is commonly accepted by all who have studied the question.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/immigrat.htm
I got my number from adherents.com - here is a bit more depth:
Islam. In recent years Muslim leaders in the United States have optimistically estimated that there were approximately 6.5 million Muslims in the country (Aly Abuzaakouk, American Muslim Council, 1999). In 1998 a Pakistani newspaper even reported that there were 12 million Muslims in the United States (4.2% of the total population)! After the events of September 11, 2001, many newspaper accounts included an estimate of 8 million American Muslims. This would equate to 3% of the U.S. population, or roughly 1 in every 33 people in the country. No comparable figure has ever been confirmed by independent research similar to the Kosmin or Glenmary studies, or the Gallup, Harris, Pew, Barna polls. Currently, surveys consistently report less than 1% of people surveyed identify themselves as Muslims. Muslim community leaders say that many American Muslims are relatively recent immigrants who either do not have telephone service, do not participate in surveys or are afraid to identify themselves as Muslims for fear of anti-Muslim discrimination. Researchers generally agree that the estimate of 300,000 Muslims in the Kosmin study (1990) and Kosmin's adjusted estimate (to 500,000) are too small to reflect current (year 2005) numbers of American Muslims. In 2004 the National Study of Youth and Religion conducted by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (sample size: 3,370 teens nationwide) found that less than one half of one percent (0.5%) of American teens were Muslim, a proportion right in line with the adult Muslim population, based on other studies. Tom W. Smith of the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago is a nationally recognized expert in survey research specializing in the study of social change and survey methodology. Smith published "Estimating the Muslim Population in the United States" in 2001. This is probably the most thorough academic study of this topic in recent years. This study concluded: "The best, adjusted, survey-based estimates put the adult Muslim population in 2000 at 0.67 percent or 1,401,000, and the total Muslim population at 1,886,000. Even if high-side estimates based on local surveys, figures from mosques, and ancestry and immigration statistics are given more weight than the survey-based numbers, it is hard to accept estimates that Muslims are greater than 1 percent of the population (2,090,000 adults or 2,814,000 total)."
Original ostracism did not involver any humor and [strange to say] was not even considered particularly humiliating. It was simply 10 years long external exile of an undesirable [by majority vote, similar to 'survivor"] citizen. No accusation besides being "politically dangerous" was needed. For example, hillary would qualify.
Tough anti cultural laws will send a lot of "extremists" scurrying back to the failed hellhole societies.
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