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Police: Submarine's safety lines ‘contributing factor’ in deaths of two sailors
Stars & Stripes ^ | 1/3/7 | Bryan Mitchell

Posted on 01/03/2007 12:37:38 PM PST by SmithL

RAF MILDENHALL, England — British police said Tuesday that safety lines played a role in the death of two U.S. sailors swept off the deck of the USS Minneapolis-St. Paul by fierce seas in Plymouth Harbor on Friday.

“It would look to be a contributing factor,” Devon and Cornwall Constabulary Sgt. Detective Richard Bailey said of the safety lines. “It’s an aspect of the inquiry.”

Bailey said the two sailors who survived the accident were either not attached to the vessel with safety lines or had lines that allowed them to drift from the nuclear-powered submarine.

The two sailors who died, identified Sunday as Senior Chief Petty Officer Thomas E. Higgins, 45, of Paducah, Ky., and Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael J. Holtz, 30, of Lakewood, Ohio, were tethered more closely to the sub, according to Bailey.

Navy spokesman Lt. Chris Servello said the Navy was declining to release details until its investigation was completed.

Servello said Commander Sub Group 8 would convene an administrative investigation conducted by a serving submarine captain.

Bailey confirmed the accident occurred while a British pilot who maneuvered the vessel through Plymouth Harbor was being transferred from the Los Angeles-class submarine to a smaller British Ministry of Defence ship to return to the Devonport Naval Base.

The submarine was at the edge of Plymouth Harbor where a mile-long break wall meets the open sea shortly before 1 p.m. on Friday when rough seas forced the four from the deck of the ship. Wind gusts were clocked near 50 mph and waves rose to 20 feet as the sub departed Plymouth Harbor following its brief tour in England. Bailey stressed that the weather was rough, but not what Plymouth Harbor officials considered extreme.

The four victims were plucked from the water by British personnel from escort vessels and by sailors aboard the sub. They were taken to Plymouth’s Derriford Hospital, where Higgins and Holtz were declared dead.

Ian Arrow, coroner for Southwest Devon and Plymouth, said the bodies of Higgins and Holtz remain at Derriford Hospital. His office is waiting for a report from the U.S. Navy before it is permitted to conduct an autopsy to determine the cause of death.

“Under the Visiting Forces Act, I am awaiting further clarification from the U.S. Navy and a report from them before we order any type of autopsy,” Arrow said.

Arrow said the U.S. Embassy in London was contacted Friday to assist in the repatriation of the victims. U.S. State Department officials could not be reached for comment on Tuesday.

The two survivors, whom the Navy declined to identify due to the Privacy Act, spent Friday and Saturday night at HMS Drake Royal Naval Base before being transferred to RAF St. Mawgan, home to a U.S. Navy outpost, according to Bailey.

He said the two were interviewed over the weekend.

Bailey said his agency is investigating the incident to determine if criminal charges would be filed in connection with the deaths, but preliminary findings indicate the deaths were a tragic accident and not the result of a criminal act.

Bailey described Friday’s deaths as “a fairly unique incident” and that his office had conducted two investigations of incidents on ships in Plymouth Harbor in the past year, but none included the deaths of foreign troops.

The constabulary, the British Ministry of Defence and the U.S. Navy are conducting separate probes. The Norfolk, Va.-based submarine was sailing under the command of the Navy’s 6th Fleet during its weeklong tour of Devonport, which regularly hosts foreign vessels as part of NATO military events.


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ussminneapolisstpaul
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1 posted on 01/03/2007 12:37:39 PM PST by SmithL
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To: Doohickey; judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; Bottom_Gun; Dog Gone; ..

Ping!


2 posted on 01/03/2007 12:38:38 PM PST by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: SmithL

How sad.


3 posted on 01/03/2007 12:40:08 PM PST by brivette
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To: SmithL

It sounds like they got crushed between the two ships.


4 posted on 01/03/2007 12:43:17 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (History convinces me that bad government results from too much government. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SmithL

The men were out on deck while the sub was underway?


5 posted on 01/03/2007 12:43:36 PM PST by AxelPaulsenJr (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.)
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To: AxelPaulsenJr

Yeah, they had to let the Pilot off, before heading out to sea.


6 posted on 01/03/2007 12:45:11 PM PST by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: SmithL
I was returning some Merchant Marine sailors to their vessel after some shore leave in Vung Tau, RVN in 1969.

The seas were a bit rough that night.

Without any hesitation, this drunk sailor just jumped at the wrong time for the Jacob's Ladder and was crushed to death between my LCM and his ship.

7 posted on 01/03/2007 12:46:42 PM PST by battlegearboat
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To: Jeff Gordon
It sounds like they got crushed between the two ships.

That's what I was thinking...or else, could they have been swept into a hull or a propellor blade? Normally, they'd have been wearing life vests...for them to die so suddenly, something else must've contributed.

8 posted on 01/03/2007 12:46:49 PM PST by Lou L
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To: SmithL

An earlier report I saw indicated the men were doing maintenance on the exterior of the sub. It is not at all clear to me as to how the men went overboard.


9 posted on 01/03/2007 12:47:02 PM PST by AxelPaulsenJr (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.)
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To: SmithL
...Wind gusts were clocked near 50 mph and waves rose to 20 feet as the sub departed Plymouth Harbor...

It's no wonder these guys were washed overboard. I wonder if this happened suddenly, or if there was rough seas throughout the transit and pilot transfer.

It's amazing this doesn't happen more often.

God bless the souls of the fallen.
10 posted on 01/03/2007 12:47:25 PM PST by rottndog (While reading this tag, remember Tens of Thousands of Americans are risking their lives for you.)
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To: SmithL

50 mph wind and 20 foot waves!!! But the weather wasn't "extreme"??? Sounds extreme to this ol' Marine.


11 posted on 01/03/2007 12:48:45 PM PST by JeeperFreeper
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To: battlegearboat

that sucks


12 posted on 01/03/2007 12:50:28 PM PST by GodfearingTexan
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To: battlegearboat

Timing is everything. I once embarrassed myself when jumping from a Boomer's Jacob's Ladder into a Tender's Motor Whaleboat. Luckily, I just landed on my rump in the bottom of the Whaleboat, damaging only my pride.


13 posted on 01/03/2007 12:57:44 PM PST by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: Lou L

Actually, the story says the two who died had shorter lines so a crushing or a battering death is the likely story.


14 posted on 01/03/2007 12:58:44 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Saddam is Dead! Bush's Fault. [Pray for our patriot brother, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub.])
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To: Jeff Gordon

No, washed off the hull (still tied to the ship's safety track with the "suspect" safety lines, then were trapped/suspended underwater by the harnesses and lines.

No crushing involved.


15 posted on 01/03/2007 1:00:11 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: SmithL

Reminds of those divers that were lost (Coast Guard, I think) that got pulled down 100+ feet in seconds even though they had line attached.


16 posted on 01/03/2007 1:03:06 PM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: AxelPaulsenJr; Doohickey; SmithL
No.

They HAD to offhull (topside) to ASSIST the pilot in getting off the sub and into the small pilot boat. The pilot would have been also tied on the same way. AFTER the pilot had been helped into the pilot boat, the sub's crew has to secure topside lines and the jacob's ladder they've used to transfer the pilot (etc) before they can finish submerging.
It's not really maintenance though.


The pilot also was endangered by the same harness and safety lines, but he could NOT be left on board the sub on a mission: his job was to assist the boat out of the sheltered water past the breakwater and buoys.

It's a catch-22: You can't leave the foreign pilot on board underwater, but you can't leave a strange harbor in a foreign port leaving a foreign naval yard under heavy seas without the pilot helping you get to an area where heavy seas.

17 posted on 01/03/2007 1:06:44 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: SmithL

This is right in line with earlier reports, and discussions here. I'm sure the Navy's investigation will will not only improve safety in the future, but also provide answers for the grieving families. May the hand of God guide them, and ease their pain.


18 posted on 01/03/2007 1:09:22 PM PST by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. Þ)
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To: NonValueAdded; Lou L; Cyber Liberty; CholeraJoe
See the problem is complicated by the waves; If the safety is too short, you get battered by high waves against the hull, because you ARE kept close to the hull and (supposedly) out of the water. But the beating from the waves might mean that you can't get your feet back under you against the sloping slippery hull. (In calm water though, you are kept from drowning by a short line because it is holding you up out of the water.)

In rough water, a long line lets you get away from the boat's hull because you fall all the way into the water, maybe surviving by swimming and your lifejacket, but you can't be pulled back on board until somebody else (in a short line!) stays on HIS FEET topside and pulls you back up to the top of the hull. And, as pointed out, IF another boat is nearby, you can get killed with a long lifeline because you are in the water between the two hulls.

Once you're completely in the water with a long lifeline, you can't move the lifeline's safety catch to a different location so you can climb back on board! But if your in the water, you getting thermally hit by freezing water and endangered from exposure.
19 posted on 01/03/2007 1:14:37 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Have a question. On your FR homepage you state the universe to be between 150 and 175 billion years old. I suppose you would say that that is the universe as we know it. Wonder what God had in place before he created the universe that we know?


20 posted on 01/03/2007 1:29:15 PM PST by AxelPaulsenJr (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.)
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