Brooking No Debate: Scientism, Crowbars, and Bats

Breakpoint with Chuck Colson ^ | 1/2/2007 | Chuck Colson

[GSlob]

yes, of course. I am a scientist by trade.

[Mr. Silverback]

So let me make sure we understand each other: You believe that an obligation--indeed, a top priority--for you as a scientist is to eliminate religion from the human experience. Is that accurate?

[GSlob]

No, it is not accurate. As I already mentioned, I have no interest in, for example, liturgical vestments fashion [which is a part of human experience]. It is simply that the sphere of religion' competence [which used to be much wider than it is now, including even claims of psychiatric nature in exorcisms] changes with time, and keeps shrinking. Whatever remains to religion- like liturgical vestments - let them have it, no objection on my part. let them handle the things 'not of this world". With the things of this world I feel myself able to deal without their input, which input to me is 100% hindrance.

[Mr. Silverback]

OK, but this article is about a guy, who is regarded as quite the authority on what science is and isn't, telling you and your colleagues that it's your job to wipe out religion. That's his agenda. What are you going to do to oppose it? I guarantee if a Christian leader said we should wipe out science, I would oppose him or her 100%.

Dawkins and his ilk have stood up on your plane and said, "This is a hijacking." What's your call?

[GSlob]

The secular claims of any religious worldview ARE to be wiped out. Whatever remains [not much, IMHO], let it be.

[Mr. Silverback]

He's not talking about secular claims, he's talking about totally annihliating the concept of religion. what are you going to do about it?

[GSlob]

"what are you going to do about it?" - let it wither on the vine, that's what. One should let the nature take its course, and not rush it. The labor market dynamics and an occasional Dover decision would do the rest.

[D-fendr]

Everybody has a religion.

Some just don't realize their own.

[Tax-chick]

Good points from Mr. Colson.

[billbears]

As usual, your interpretation of the Bible's meaning follows your own personal wishes

LOL, sure it does. I said I accepted the Word as the inerrant Word of God. But I also accept that man over time may not fully understand the intended meaning of the Word. Example of lost teaching, the Pyramids. We don't understand fully how they were built and yet there they are. The Egyptians had an understanding of engineering that we have just begun to 'regrasp' in the past century.

Meanings of words change overtime as well. Just within the past 500 years, I could give you a list of important words in our own language that have changed meanings completely from their original. If you're living 900+ years (which I don't doubt because the Bible says it) are you going to beyond a shadow of a doubt state that 'year' meant 365 days? What if it meant 300 days? Or 500 days? Just a few weeks either way seriously throws off the 6000 years. In our own written history, the year has been defined and redefined to fit cultural, religious, and scientific purposes (i.e. Romans 300 day year, French 360 day year, Gregorian calendar, etc.)

...your derision for those who dare oppose the Gospel According to Billbears is on display

Perhaps it is in some way. But I also know that nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say the earth is 6,000 years old. Where did this number come from? Some guy x number of years ago sitting down and working backwards through genealogy records found in the Word? And it's accepted as fact? Give me a break.

The Good Lord gave us minds to reason. He gave us the ability to discern between fact and fiction. I am not going to belittle the ability to reason(what God gave me) to believe that He would present me with all this data just to have the 'faith' to refute it and say 'nope, 6000 years you're right!!'

[metmom]

It wouldn't surprise me if a large number of atheists were like me: apathetic to religious belief instead of opposed to it.

While that's likely true, at least I've seen nothing that would cause me to disagree with your statement, it's the VERY vocal minority that ruins it for the rest of you guys.

[Tribune7]

Just think of all the sciences that might be "ruled out" under a theocratic rule:

There have been several experiments in social engineering that specifically declared a belief in God to be bad, just as Weinberg and his bunch wish to do. How did science fair with the Khmer Rouge? in Mao's PRC? in Stalin's Soviet Union? etc. etc. etc.

[metmom]

Strange, religious, specifically Christian, thinking is responsible for the form of government we now live under.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That's where theistic thinking can lead you. What's so bad about that?

Would you rather live under an atheistic/non-thesitic form of government? Could you name me one atheistic/non-theistic form of government that was, or is, worth living under? Do you know of any that were or are benevolent?

The Soviet Union was atheistic/non-theistic and did OK in the realm of science and technology but just about destroyed it's society and culture. Is that what you want?

[aruanan]

Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg told attendees that “the world needs to wake up from its long nightmare of religious belief.” According to Weinberg, “anything that we scientists can do to weaken the hold of religion should be done and may in the end be our greatest contribution to civilization.”

Sounds as though he's been reading tracts from the late 18th century. When you think of Thomas Henry Huxley's relationship to religion, think Margaret Sanger's relationship to social work.

[Sopater]

already posted here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1761326/posts

[RobRoy]

>>What’s behind all of this animosity? <<

I can tell you what is behind it: They intuitively know they are the next Dan Rather. They are petrified!

[Elsie]

Not a pro-life thread per se, but since almost all of you are people of faith, you need to be aware of this.

3,000 American dead in Iraq

or...

about 6 million American dead in Abortion 'clinics':

Which ones YOU mourn will indicate your politics!

[Elsie]

I believe that God used, as He has the ability and does use all things, evolution to bring this world about.

---

 

Let's see if there are verses that might shed light on how fast GOD works.....

 

Isa 48:3 ... I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of My mouth, and I shewed them; I did [them] SUDDENLY, and they came to pass.

Indeed!!

Genesis 1
1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3. And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

This is a GOD who creates by speaking; but; how LONG did it take?

---

Now Jesus was a man who had God-like powers. Was HE God? The Book says so.......

NIV Colossians 1:13-17
13. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
17. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

NIV Revelation 4:11
"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

NIV Revelation 10:6
And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!

 

Notice that when this man speaks, things happen RIGHT NOW! Not after some times passes and Nature takes it's course.

NIV Matthew 8:2-3
2. A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
3. Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he

said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured of his leprosy.

NIV Matthew 21:19
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

NIV Mark 1:41-42
41. Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!"
42. Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured.

NIV Mark 5:41-42
41. He took her by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!").
42. Immediately the girl stood up and walked around (she was twelve years old). At this they were completely astonished.

NIV Mark 10:51-52
51. "What do you want me to do for you?" Jesus asked him. The blind man said, "Rabbi, I want to see."
52. "Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

NIV Luke 5:13
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" And Immediately the leprosy left him.

NIV Luke 5:24-25
24. But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ." He said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home."
25. Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God.

NIV Luke 8:44
She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and Immediately her bleeding stopped.

NIV Luke 13:12-13
12. When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity."
13. Then he put his hands on her, and Immediately she straightened up and praised God.

NIV Luke 18:42-43
42. Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has healed you."
43. Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus, praising God. When all the people saw it, they also praised God.

NIV Acts 9:33-35
33. There he found a man named Aeneas, a paralytic who had been bedridden for eight years.
34. "Aeneas," Peter said to him, "Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and take care of your mat." Immediately Aeneas got up.
35. All those who lived in Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord.

NIV Matthew 8:13
 Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! It will be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

NIV Matthew 15:28
 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

 

Now if this same personage, who does things in an instant; how LONG would it take Him to CREATE all that we find around us???

[Elsie]

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana

What about those that remember; but fail to understand?