Posted on 01/01/2007 10:44:24 AM PST by Uncledave
An oil and security task force of the Council on Foreign Relations recently opined that "the voices that espouse 'energy independence' are doing the nation a disservice by focusing on a goal that is unachievable over the foreseeable future." Others have also said, essentially, that other nations will control our transportation fuel--get used to it. Yet House Democrats have announced a push for "energy independence in 10 years," and in November General Motors joined Toyota and perhaps other auto makers in a race to produce plug-in hybrid vehicles, hugely reducing the demand for oil. Who's right--those who drive toward independence or those who shrug?
Bet on major progress toward independence, spurred by market forces and a portfolio of rapidly developing oil-replacing technologies.
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All this is likely to change decisively, because electricity is about to become a major partner with alternative liquid fuels in replacing oil.
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Utilities are rapidly becoming quite interested in plug-ins because of the substantial benefit to them of being able to sell off-peak power at night. Because off-peak nighttime charging uses unutilized capacity, DOE's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory estimates that adopting plug-ins will not create a need for new base load electricity generation plants until plug-ins constitute over 84% of the country's 220 million passenger vehicles.
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Once plug-ins start appearing in showrooms it is not only consumers and utility shareholders who will be smiling. If cheap off-peak electricity supplies a portion of our transportation needs, this will help insulate alternative liquid fuels from OPEC market manipulation designed to cripple oil's competitors.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
I don't hear any one saying that ALL vehicles should run on electricity. It just wouldn't be feasible. However, there are enough passenger cars on the road, that using electricity for some of them would help reduce gas consumption, and make for cleaner air in the close quarters of cities.
That's why folks are doing research to find ways of making batteries smaller and more powerful, and ways to make the cars run more efficiently. If they can do it to microprocessors and computers, why not batteries?
"That's the worst misapplication of basic thermo I've seen in a long time."
Is it now? Well, just make sure you wear a good pair of walking shoes when you buy that new electric vehicle.
You might bring a thermodynamics book to read along the way, so you can figure out where you went wrong.
Electric cars are only off by an order of magnitude (on the short side) from being actually comparable and viable vehicles - on cost and performance.
If you simply do not want to compare like vehicles, then why not go the rest of the way and just ride a bike everywhere you go?
Uhh, Ok, I really didn't understand your reply.
You have to buy power to drive to work. You can buy Arab oil refine it and put it in your tank. In the mean time, your money leaves the country adding to the trade deficit and adds to the terrorist economy. Or on the other hand you can buy good old, home grown American Coal, burned in a power plant and sent to your home via the power lines. The money stays in the country and creates jobs.
Buy what works for you, but I don't understand why so many people are freaked out about technology to decrease oil consumption.
Bingo. Wind is already #2, behind gas fired turbines, in new electrical generation. In high resource areas, it is now the cheapest marginal source. (Yes, kiddies, 30 years of government subsidized research has matured the technology.) The issue with wind for baseline power generation is reliabilty and storage. Plug-ins are a good fit.
I'm not interested in a full electric car. I want to be able to drive longer distances, if need be. A gas/electric hybrid is what I'd prefer. I won't be in the market for one for several years. By then, the car companies will have been working the bugs out for a while, and I'll find something nice, I'm sure. Also, by then, I hope we'll have a nice, efficient solar collection grid, so I don't have to pay ANYONE to charge my car.
"That's why folks are doing research to find ways of making batteries smaller and more powerful, and ways to make the cars run more efficiently. If they can do it to microprocessors and computers, why not batteries?"
Because batteries are not the same as microprocessors. Just wanting something is not the same as it being possible.
Well it certainly will never be possible if someone doesn't TRY it.
I remember listening to a speaker describing why there would never, ever be color LCD displays.
Mother-boards were fundimentally limitted to less than 100 mhz because of RF emination.
You will never be able to get crisp crust in a microwave.
You will never be successful if you can't use a sliderule.
Never say never.
"Also, by then, I hope we'll have a nice, efficient solar collection grid, so I don't have to pay ANYONE to charge my car."
You'll need about 5 football fields covered with solar cells and probably $50 million, plus a staff of engineers and technicians to make that dream come true.
It's a nice dream.
The problem with All these Environmentally Friendly (EF) transportation Advances is, they are Less EF in the Manufacture and Post Use stages than the current Vehicles.
The enviro-wackies Ignore the Increase in Junk put out by a factory making an EF vehicle, and the longer-to-bio-degrade nature of the vehicle when its use-life has come to an end.
Sure, a Car might put out less pollution when used - BUT - more pollution is created in its manufacture, fuel supply manufacture and disposal.
Of course, they can always ignore that and then Blame the next Conservative leader when the time comes.
"Well it certainly will never be possible if someone doesn't TRY it."
Is it possible for you to fit your head into a quart-sized Mason jar? Try it to make sure.
You have as much chance of doing that as you have making a viable electric vehicle.
That's how impossible the physics of the problem are.
Suggest you read the ENTIRE article prior to posting such questions. The answer is there for you to find.
"Never say never."
There will NEVER be a battery-powered electric car that rivals a like gasoline-powered car.
It simply is not possible, nor will it ever be possible.
Wanting it to be possible does not make it possible.
They are doing research to sell batteries and for no other reason. The results have only been incremental as new technology has to be purchased to use the new batteries which makes other divisions of the same companies happy.
The car companies don't want to anger the oil companies by making more efficient cars.
It is always about the money.
You'll need about 5 football fields covered with solar cells and probably $50 million, plus a staff of engineers and technicians to make that dream come true.
It's a nice dream.
Actually, with current solar panel technology she could get'r done for about $60K, a few hippies and her back yard, but that will charge one vehicle, during the day.
Better to use the solar to run the house A/C and use coal to charge the car at night.
We're talking Apples to Oranges here.
You probably do not understand the Laws of Physics. Nano technology, (Micro processors, etc,,,) is based on Quantum Physics, while Electrical Technology is based upon the first order of Physics.
The two do not mix much in the same way that DC and AC power do not mix. It all has to do with the nature of the flow of electrons.
In other words, we are limited to the number of elements that we can produce batteries with while there is no limit to what we can do with nano technology because they are not limited to elemental physics.
I commute 10 miles, round-trip every day. If Progress Energy were to offer a discounted rate on the off-peak charging and paid me a premium when they used energy stored on my battery during peaks I would consider a plug-in hybrid.
I don't think I would want to be "the first on my block" to try this. Like in all things I do, I would insist they show me real numbers before I made a decision. They would have to answer a lot of questions about the cost, life, storage and disposal of the batteries.
One thing I like about this idea is that it's really a "flex fuel" vehicle, if the grid power doesn't make sense financially I just don't plug it in and run it off gas. (I am assuming that the design would allow for the batteries to be removed for "normal" hybrid operation.)
First, we do not get the majority of our imported oil from the MidEast. Check your facts.
Second, you wish to trade free-market oil for government regulated electricity. Not smart.
You can place your transportation in the hands of Pelosi and Kennedy, but I won't.
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