Social Security Agreement With Mexico Released After 3 1/2 Year Freedom of Information Act Battle

Yahoo ^ | 12/29/06 | Yahoo

[traviskicks]

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.

[A. Pole]

Bump

[mickie]

Bump....

[Clinging Bitterly]

...in Mexico, workers get back only what they put in, plus accrued interest.

That's all I ever wanted. What I put in, plus accrued interest. At 12% for about the first ten years, and then 15% of my pay for the rest of my entire working life, that would be a decent retirement.

[zeugma]

If this is true, he is not the man I thought he was and it makes me sorry I ever voted for him....

Unfortunately, what you get for voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil.

[zeugma]

Why exclude Mexico?

Because it  is a third-world kleptocracy and hell-hole that is invading us with millions of its citizens?

[longtermmemmory]

We have such agreements with other contries.

This would seem to only affect LEGAL immigrants.

The illegals do not collect unless they file for green cards under the current hardship visa program AND can prove their back contributions.

This article is just hysteria based.

Is this some sort of political spin via the democrats?

[zeugma]

An absolutely brilliant level of discourse. I'd expect no less from you, lol.

You must have hit a soft spot with your question.

[zeugma]

That's how it began life (as a forecasting tool, when originally developed for the feds by RAND), but it has morphed into a form that is very effective for FORMING "consensus".

Check these out:

http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/nov98/focus.html

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/the_delphi_technique_and_rick_warren.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b2e1f024e20.htm

 

Interesting links. Worth repeating. Combine above with the Hegelian and other methods for manipulating the boundries of permissible debade, and you have some pretty powerful tools at the disposal of some pretty nasty folk.
 

[jmc813]

The sooner the Ponzi scheme called Social Security dies the better.

Aren't you a supporter of the Medicare Prescription legislation? How could you be for that and against Social Security?

[texastoo]

"The illegals do not collect unless they file for green cards under the current hardship visa program AND can prove their back contributions.

This article is just hysteria based.

Is this some sort of political spin via the democrats?"

---

You are totally WRONG. You posts shows that you have not read anything or done any research into this matter and you are actually misleading others that are too lazy to do any research.

Go here and read the second paragraph of the GAO report or the Government Accounting Office report. You might even think about reading the whole thing as it is a report from both the Social Security Administration and the Government Accounting Office giving the pros and cons of the Totalization Agreement with Mexico.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03993.pdf

No, they don't call them illegals in this report, they call them "unaurthorized" workers.

Jo Anne Barnhart, the Social Security Administrator appointed by Bush, signed this agreement with Mexico only 2 days after looking into the Mexican Social Security system. The GAO kindly takes her to task for this and other costly items such as the fact that no one knows just how many unaurthorized workers and their dependents will be collecting this money.

[Toddsterpatriot]

No, they don't call them illegals in this report, they call them "unaurthorized" workers.

I don't think that illegals who used stolen SS numbers while working and living here illegally should get Social Security benefits. If the President ever signs an agreement which gives them benefits, I will, joined by most other Freepers, let my Congressman and Senators know that I strongly disagree.

[WatchingInAmazement]

If the President ever signs an agreement which gives them benefits, I will, joined by most other Freepers, let my Congressman and Senators know that I strongly disagree.

I don't know the procedure for sure on this, so I'm asking, too. But if his Secretary of State and his head of SS has signed the agreement in Mexico, isn't it "signed" by this administration? Does he actually need to "sign" it?

http://www.ssa.gov/history/2000.html

June 29, 2004 SSA Commissioner Jo Anne Barnhart signed a "totalization" agreement in Mexico City with with Dr. Santiago Levy Algazi, Director General, Mexican Social Security Institute, that will remove from U.S. citizens working for U.S. companies in Mexico the burden of paying social security taxes to both countries. It was estimated that this would result in approximately 3,000 U.S. workers and their employers sharing in tax savings of $140 million over the first five years of the agreement due to the avoidance of double-taxation. It was estimated that the agreement would also result in approximately 50,000 U.S. and Mexican workers receiving benefits after the first five years of the agreement.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Does he actually need to "sign" it?

Yes.

[mewzilla]

BTTT.

[kabar]

According to the SSA, the Social Security Trust Fund will begin paying out more than it is taking in by 2017, and will be exhausted by the year 2040.

Baloney. As long as we maintain the fiction that the SS Trust Fund contains real assets, this is true. However, SS is a pay as you go system. The SS Trust Fund contains IOUs in the form of non-market T-Bills, which can only be redeemed by the USG. The $3.5 trillion in the SSTF is carried as part of the national debt of almost $9 trillion under the category of intragovernmental holdings. They are not assets but liabilities.

If nothing is done, after 2017 we start redeeming the SSTF IOUs with real assets through more borrowing and/or reduced spending. When this happened in 1983, we raised taxes and reduced benefits.

[Kimberly GG]

"That's how it began life (as a forecasting tool, when originally developed for the feds by RAND), but it has morphed into a form that is very effective for FORMING "consensus".
Check these out:
http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/nov98/focus.html
http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/the_delphi_technique_and_rick_warren.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b2e1f024e20.htm "

May 25, 2006
FEMA Recruits Ministers to Promote Martial Law to Congregations

A minister has revealed to Prison Planet a nationwide FEMA program which is training ministers and other religious representatives to teach their congregations to “obey the government” in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.

In March of this year the Pastor, who we shall refer to as Pastor Revere, was invited to attend a meeting of his local FEMA chapter which circulated around preparedness for a potential bio-terrorist attack, any natural disaster or a nationally declared emergency.

The FEMA directors told the Pastors that attended that it was their job to help implement FEMA and Homeland Security directives in anticipation of any of these eventualities. The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to “obey the government” when martial law is declared.

It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the “cowboy mentality” of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure. It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that “this is for their own good.”

If it’s “cowboy mentality” to stand up for property and gun rights, we can only hope we still have enough “cowboys” left in America. Fortunately, only about 20% of Americans actually attend church regularly (compared to the 40% who say they do), so the FEMA statist propaganda will only reach a fifth of the population even if every minister in America preached it. Of course, Police State USA has the Mainstream Media ready, willing, and able to preach to the other 80%.–Prison Planet

http://michaelpaladin.com/blog/2006/05/25/fema-recruits-ministers-to-promote-martial-law-to-congregations/

[Kimberly GG]

Isn't some of this, an agreement which grants illegal aliens full SS benefits, including time earned for work prior to coming here illegally, and for time worked here even under fraudulent use of a false or stolen SS Number, part of S2611?

[mewzilla]

BTTT.

[Don Joe]

Thanks for making me sick to my stomach! (yikes!)

I posted it here, too, where it seems all-too-relevant:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1760627/posts?page=901#901