[Jo Nuvark]

In Billy Graham's heydey there was a thing called "The
Jesus Movement" and a great movie produced by him called
"A Thief In The Night". The media were reporting Vietnam,
Watergate and the Jesus phenomenon, lead by none other
than Billy Graham. The media were liberal, but not as
rabbidly hate filled anti-American as they are today.

http://www.objectivismonline.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=106&Itemid=34

Now as to his friends, He has been a Spiritual counselor
to nearly every President in his pastoral lifetime from
Truman to GW. Graham calls himself a Democrat. I was
at his crusade in Los Angeles at the Colliseum in the
60's. I was about six years old and found that experience
unforgetable.

Pastor's like Warren and Graham have the opportunity to
influence wayward people like Obama and Clinton. If
at all possible and no matter who brings the message, pray
they would have ears to hear the Good News that Jesus
Christ is Lord and then fall into obedience to His Word.

BTW, I have visited Rick Wyble's Willow Creek and found
it to be far from "Seeker Friendly". It was grounded in
the Word of God in a way any Berean would find acceptable.

---

Now, here's what I really think. I think some people on
this thread are green with envy at Warren's success both
as a writer and as a Pastor/Church Leader. Some people
on this thread are gleefully satisfied they have found a
chink in his purpose driven armor. I don't go to his
church and frankly I prefer a more fundamentalist style
of fellowship. But if God CAN use RW, then God WILL
use RW. God ALWAYS has His way. I only wish I could be
so used by God.

[Coldwater Creek]

God says that His Word will not return void. He will use a monkey if that monkey can read from the scripture.

BTW, I attend a huge mega mega church, and still do not like Rick Warren. No jealously here.

[Quix]

BTW, I have visited Rick Wyble's Willow Creek and found
it to be far from "Seeker Friendly". It was grounded in
the Word of God in a way any Berean would find acceptable.
= = =

AMEN!

And your last paragraph is far too accurate for anyone . . . well . . . for comfort of the wise and guilty.

[Quix]

And your last paragraph is far too accurate for anyone . . . well . . . for comfort of the wise and guilty.

But then, the wise usually aren't so guilty.

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "But if God CAN use RW, then God WILL use RW. God ALWAYS has His way. I only wish I could be so used by God."

Well, let's think about this a bit. From what I understand about the "Word of God" and how God uses His word -- I see that a drunk, a prostitute, a drug dealer, an atheist can all be used by God, even as they deny God in their hearts -- by them saying something about God's word (perhaps a quote, or a phrase) which will then be heard by someone else and then take seed in that other person's heart -- because it's God's word that does the work and not the person saying it.

So, in that sense, I'm sure God can use Rick Warren. I understand God also used the enemy nations of Israel to do "His work", in punishing Israel. So, even enemies of Christianity and God and Jesus Christ can do His work, exactly the way He wants them too.

But, that doesn't say very much for those particular kinds of individuals who are doing God's work. They will still find themselves in Hell for their rejection of His Son.

As far as Rick Warren is concerned, I'm sure that he understands who Christ is and is saved. However, what he is doing is questionable in regards to whether he's really bringing others to Christ or not. He sounds like he's pointing everyone to himself, rather than to Christ (even if he personally does know Christ). And for all those who are "coming in" from the outside world and don't know Christ -- that is no service to them, at all. If they ever do manage to find Christ, somewhere behind all the Rick Warren paraphernalia, it will only be because someone else made clear who Christ is, versus, who Rick Warren is.

One might say that all that Rick Warren built up in his so-called "success" will be the straw, hay and stubble that will be "burned up" at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Rick Warren may the one of those who barely gets into heaven -- smelling of smoke, for all his burned up "works" that he did for himself, as opposed to what he could have done for Christ.

Regards,
Star Traveler

[Gamecock]

It was grounded in the Word of God in a way any Berean would find acceptable.

Oh? Is that a fact? Would a Berean cancel weekly worship just because Christmas was on a Sunday?

BTW, I have visited Rick Wyble's Willow Creek and found it to be far from "Seeker Friendly".

From the above cited link:

"It's more than being family friendly. It's being lifestyle-friendly for people who are just very, very busy," said Cally Parkinson, spokesperson for Willow Creek, to the Associated Press. Some "lifestyle-friendly" adjustments include bunching up the services on Christmas Eve....

People who are just very, very busy? Too busy to worship Christ? I'm glad Christ wasn't so "busy" that he had the time to life a life of perfection and die on the cross for my sins.

Are you saying "life-style friendly" model at Willow Creek is somehow superior to "seeker friendly"?