Posted on 12/22/2006 4:33:05 AM PST by SJackson
Only God is the Lord and Giver of Life: He can authorize when it can be taken, and He can prohibit the taking of it. He says:
Deuteronomy 19:10
Innocent blood must not be shed
Proverbs 6:16-17
These .. things doth the LORD hate: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood
Isaiah 59:2-7
Your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood..[you] make haste to shed innocent blood
Jeremiah 7:6
Oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood ...
Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood.
Moreover, merely beinging to a false religion (Islam) or going on a Hajj doesn't make a person guilty of a capital crime. Crime is something you do, not merely something you think. Destroying a nuclear installation (which could well be a justified action) is not the same as murdering families on pilgrimage. And a person who is not in combat is not a combatant. Surely you know that.
You are not a Catholic, but for the sake of Catholics who might be reading this exchange, I want to add that the Catechism of the Catholic Church gives strong expression to the American and Judeo-Christian law cited above:
2313 Non-combatants, wounded soldiers, and prisoners must be respected and treated humanely.
Actions deliberately contrary to the law of nations and to its universal principles are crimes, as are the orders that command such actions. Blind obedience does not suffice to excuse those who carry them out. Thus the extermination of a people, nation, or ethnic minority must be condemned as a mortal sin. One is morally bound to resist orders that command genocide.
2314 "Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation."
I thought you folks (and any of your other FR buddies) might be somewhat interested in this thread.
And Truman and the rest of America had to live with the decision that these tactical strikes saved what some analysts were predicting to be in excess of hundreds of thousands of casualties trying to take the home island of Japan by invasion. "Kill Them all, God will know his own" was used by a Christian leader ordering the Albigensian Crusade. We can "go down fighting" against Fundamentalist Islam or we can submit. I choose the first as my tagline states. In war (especially the type of non-conventional war that we are currently fighting), this area becomes extremely blurry and I don't believe that Truman was wrong. I was agreeing with sentiment expressed out of frustration, I am quite sure, that we "take the gloves off". I am not going to hang around to discuss the morality of Truman's decision.
Theocide, maybe ;^)
Most?
What were the others??
Well, when they hide in amoung the innocent(?) then what are we to do?
NIV Matthew 13:24-30
24. Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
26. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27. "The owner's servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28. "`An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29. "`No,' he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"
Unlike the show of resolve at Hiroshima that saved millions of lives, a Mecca nuke would simply be vindictive.
Well CRAP!!
Let's just give up then!
Here: take my head, as I won't be using it.
AMEN!
On a final note, the atomic weapons used against Imperial Japan was not part of policy to eliminate the entire race of Japanese.
1. (which explains the Geneva rules we are ignoring today - if you ain't in a uniform and take up arms against me, you're fair game and NO protections apply.)
2. There's also the simple reality that, if it does not terrify them into abject surrender (dhimmitude), it can really piss-off the civilians and seriously complicate things if you manage to best their army. ----- (See rule #1)
Very succinct description of the workings of islam. It is a criminal enterprise and must be punished (wiped out).
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
We should because they're terribly important.
Deliberate targeting of non combatants is a war crime.
Then why wasn't Curtis LeMay tried as a war criminal after WWII? Why wasn't Sherman tried as a war criminal after the Civil War?
if you wish to assume moral equivalency with them.
It's precisely this kind of silly thinking that's going to lead to the deaths of thousands more American civilians. We are not and never will be 'morally equivilant' to these thugs.
"He who would kill you, arise and kill him first." Leviticus.
L
Their 'holy book' commands them all to be 'holy warriors'.
There are no civilians. Once again, you haven't educated yourself on the mindset of the enemy. Now if you want to risk your life that's fine. But you've no right to gamble with mine.
L
Absurd.
So if we don't nuke Mecca, then we should just give up? Nothing else will work? Invading Iran and Syria won't work? Just nuke Mecca or surrender, right?
I guess you really aren't using your head. You certainly won't miss yours.
The problem though, is that the world's 1 billion Muslims are not the enemy, but the enemy's captives; moreover, with respect to the present jihad movements, many more of them are victims than perpetrators, and God knows how many millions or tens of millions are in some confused and fearful place in-between.
I believe St. Paul had a handle on this when he wrote,
(Ephesians 6:12)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
If that is the case, we are in a very dangerous situation indeed; it is war, but war in which the spiritual forces are salient; and it is all the more urgent that we not repudiate God's law and thereby forfeit His indispensible guidance and protection.
Because they were on the winning side?
"We are not and never will be 'morally equivilant' to these thugs."
If our soldiers are not equivalent to thugs --- and I believe they are not --- then it behooves them to refrain from behaving like thugs. Just warriors attack combatants, the enemy's warmaking assets, and military targets. Thugs attack civilians, or destroy whole districts indiscriminately.
Our soldiers have an ethic of honor. They have an ethic of destroying the enemy's ability to fight, and shielding the noncombatants, which they do even when it is costly to themselves. This pertains to a warrior's honor: and this is the reason why our troops deserve our support.
There is no international law! There is also nobody to enforce it, that is more than obvious...
No law prevents any military action...
The deployment of massively destructive weapons against Hiroshima and Nagasaki were at the sole discretion of the U.S. president.
The same is true today. The War Powers Act is still a valid act of Congress, it has never been repealed...
You have a point in the sense that that jihadis want their war to be the uprising of the whole people, including pregnant women strapping on explosives, and 12-year-olds setting up IED's. And of course, they can put together a pageful of their perverted scriptures in support of this filthy vision.
However, not all Muslims go along with this. You yourself know that a substantial majority of those killed, injured, made homeless and forced into exile over the past 20 years by Muslim jihad groups, have been other Muslims. Sectarian violence and ethnic/regional mayhem seem to account for the lion's share of violent deaths.
With nobody wearing uniforms, following a flag, following a recognized command structure, or representing a state or government. it is exceedingly difficult to sort out who is a combatant and who isn't. Most of the combatants are technically civilians; and they'll use anybody--- street-sweepers, beggars, schoolgirls, babies -- as human shields.
In such situations, you can't expect our troops to be clairvoyant or exercise infallible judgment as to targets. It's inevitable that as they target the thugs, there'll be a lot of collateral deaths. OK. But they still have to target the thugs.
For that reason, it's still important to rule out notions like "Let's drop a Big One on Mecca at the height of the Hajj." That's not war: that's butchery. It puts you on the same moral level as Mohamed Atta al-Sayed.
Islam = slavery
Moderate Muslim = out of bullets...
I really don't remember... don't much care...
I do know most of them were Saudi...
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