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To: lqclamar
As I've already openly caveated the limitations of 1996 CIA factbook data for WWII, your continued harping on its 55 year removal from 1941 serves little constructive purpose to this discussion. The only point is to show a rough indicator of the given countries' muslim populations, which should not be all that far from what they were only two generations ago.

If that's what you believe, why do you take issue with my (conservative) figure of 67,000 Muslim troops out of the 200,000 froml West Africa? Here are the low-end estimates of the Francophone West Africa countries' Muslim populations, according to the current CIA Factbook:

Benin – 20%

Burkina Faso – 50%

Côte d’Ivoire – 35%

Guinea – 80%

Niger – 80%

Mali – 90%

Mauritania – 100%

Senegal – 94%

Togo – 20%

Being familiar with the region, I don't expect these numbers to be much different than the figures given in your 1995 print edition. Perhaps you are being deliberately argumentative. Perhaps.

As an aside I do find it interesting though that you would object so vocally to half a century in time while casually dismissing the significance of the entire century between Khaldun and Granada.

Please explain how I "casually dismissed" it. I mentioned that the Reconquista was not complete in Khaldun's 14th century life. It ended with the fall of Granada at the end of the 15th century.

And since you're harping on inconsistencies that don't exist, I take great pleasure in pointing out that there was no gap in time "between Khaldun and Granada," as Granada (the state and the city proper) was in existence for the entire duration of Khaldun's life. The fall of Granada occurred in 1492, ending the Moorish Granada state 86 years after Khaldun's death.

Now back on the Hitler side of the war there were units that were almost entirely mahometan. And those units fought on Hitler's front lines in Hungary and Austria. But we've already established that you don't like to talk about them...

From your description, it doesn't sound like they did much fighting there, really. They were on the "front lines" because the front had been pushed westward in 1944-1945 as the Nazi war machine crumbled. I'm sure the Aryan supremacists in Berlin preferred to send Slavic ûntermenschen to the eastern front slaughter in order to preserve their blond-haired, blue-eyed praetorians for defense of the Heimat.

As you mentioned (#214), the the Handschar troops deserted in massive numbers in Hungary and the remaining troops raised the white flag a month after arriving in Austria, presumably having moved there for the opportunity to surrender to the Brits rather than Stalin's Red Army.

246 posted on 01/11/2007 2:47:14 AM PST by zimdog
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To: zimdog
If that's what you believe, why do you take issue with my (conservative) figure of 67,000 Muslim troops out of the 200,000 froml West Africa?

Because it lacks specific sourcing or explanation of how you arrived at that number. You will also notice significant disparity in muslim populations for each of the colonies you named, ranging from as low as 20% to as high as 100%. An accurate number would thus require estimates based on the troops provided out of each of these colonies, not the region as a whole.

258 posted on 01/11/2007 2:35:57 PM PST by lqclamar
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To: zimdog
From your description, it doesn't sound like they did much fighting there, really.

Incorrect. The records show the muslim 13th Waffen-SS was attached to the 2nd Panzer Army under Artillery General Maximilian de Angelis. They were pulled to the front line in Hungary to counter the Red Army's advance. They engaged the Soviets almost continuously from December 1944 until their surrender.

I'm sure the Aryan supremacists in Berlin preferred to send Slavic ûntermenschen to the eastern front slaughter in order to preserve their blond-haired, blue-eyed praetorians for defense of the Heimat.

Incorrect again. The muzzies served right along side plenty of blue eyed blond haired Germans in the 2nd Panzer army. Hitler sent 'em there because the Soviets were making a push straight for his beloved blue-eyed, blonde haired Austria and Hungary was the gateway.

As you mentioned (#214), the the Handschar troops deserted in massive numbers in Hungary

The January 1945 muster puts them at 12,000, down from 20,000 the previous year. IOW, they lost 8,000 in deaths, injuries, and desertions combined during a year of combat. The number is comparable to just about any other eastern front division in similar conditions circa 1945.

and the remaining troops raised the white flag a month after arriving in Austria, presumably having moved there for the opportunity to surrender to the Brits rather than Stalin's Red Army.

Actually they were forcefully pushed back into Austria by the Soviet advance on Vienna, the city where Hitler grew up. Along with Berlin, it was the focal point of the Nazi's last stand. The Soviets and Brits met in Austria, so yes - they picked the better side to surrender to.

259 posted on 01/11/2007 2:59:19 PM PST by lqclamar
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