Lead Ammo Ban Proposed

NRA Members' Councils of California ^ | 12/8/06 | Various

[Redcloak]

 NRA Members' Councils of California

Legislative Info and Contact Tools AMMO BAN Summary:  NRA opposes this measure.

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Issue:	LEAD AMMO BAN (Fish & Game)
Description:	The Department of Fish and Game has been sued in Federal Court for an alleged "illegal" taking of condors and golden eagles under the Endangered Species Act and various Federal rules and regs related to raptor protection. The Department of Fish and Game is considering courses of action.
Latest Info:	12/08/2006 - Dept. of Fish & Game meeting. The various condor recovery groups involved are attempting to introduce condors every year to a wider and wider range (hence the term "recovery".). Selling out part of the A zone and the various mountains now would only establish the precedent for an ammo ban later, as more Lojacked condors are released. THIS REPORT chronicles a meeting held by the Dept. of Fish & Game on this matter on 12/07/2006
Action needed:	Send a ONE-CLICK Email to the DEPT. OF FISH & GAME against LEAD AMMO BAN

[Redcloak]

Action on this item is needed by more than just Californians. This has the potential to affect hunters (and gun owners in general) throughout the Western US. The greenies are trying to re-establish the California Condor throughout as much of its historic habitat as possible. To this end, the birds are being released in areas outside of California, such as the Grand Canyon. The birds are flying from there into neighboring states.

If a ban on lead ammo is allowed here, on the grounds that the Federal Endangered Species Act somehow calls for it, then hunters could find themselves similarly restricted in all states West of the Rockies; anywhere these birds might fly to. If the greenies can bully California with the threat of a Federal lawsuit, then why not all of these states?

Right now, the concentration is on ammo for big game hunting. But rest assured, the greenies won't stop there. Any sort of ammo that might find its way into a condor's gut will be banned eventually. There are proposals to replace the lead with bullets made of copper over tungsten, but how long until the Brady Bunch begins wailing about "armor-piercing, cop-killer, sniper ammunition"? If this is allowed to pass without so much as a peep out of the shooting community, we will see all ammunition banned for one reason or another; either it harms an all but extinct bird, or it gets labeled as "armor piercing".

Lead is not what's killing these birds. Natural selection is doing them in. They were meant to feast on dead megafauna. In case no one's noticed, there are no more mammoth carcasses lying about. Other carrion birds are taking their place in the environment. Add to that the fact that they eat all manner of rubbish, such as bottle caps, wire, and lead tire weights, and you'll see why this species isn't long for this world. Follow that ONE-CLICK link above so that you don't lose your rights to an extinct bird.

[Yo-Yo]

I'm all for DU.

[Ron2]

This is one thing that Hillary Clinton has wanted to do for a long time. Not ban guns.............ban ammunition. Another way of gun control. They need to ask her about this if, indeed, she runs for President.

[WakeUpAndVote]

I say we replace all the lead with mercury. It being cased in bio degradable bullet shell could not end up harming the bird. The mercury will sink and seep into the ground below. Enviro whackjobs will be happy and sportsmen will love the knock down power. Cops will endorse it too because the mercury will splatter and vaporize on contact with armor.

/big sarcasm.

[Anti-Bubba182]

If they do that that eliminates cast or swaged bullets in favor of a replacement certain to be more expensive, which I am sure is the Greenie actual intent.

I don't believe a word about the damn Condors, and even if it was true they are less important than access to ammunition.

[Malone LaVeigh]

Bullet of the future?

[Carry_Okie]

A great thread on Green Ammunition.

Whatever happened to Hopalong anyway? Does anybody know?

[RKV]

Habitat. That's why condor population in the wild is failing. Lack of habitat. The enviros get a two-fer here because they can work on banning hunting and guns together.

[NaughtiusMaximus]

This is a blatant attempt to eliminate shooting and shooting sports. Its been in the works for awhile now.

Our attempt to establish a public shooting range where police and hunters can shoot in safe conditions is being blocked by radical/liberal "environmentalists" waving this cause as their ensign.

[DoughtyOne]

I have sometimes wondered if someone shot every person who advocated gun control in public, if there would come a time when the fools would finally realize what they were intended for.

Guns are the great equalizer, and frankly I'll never understand why they seek to ban cheap Saturday night specials in poor neighborhoods, as if the women would be less safe with them when there's no man in the house.

[oldenuff2no]

I'm a hunter, gunsmith, and on the board of a tax free habitat restoration organization.
Please take the time to do the reading. Take a look at the reports on the dead and sick condors they are finding. Lead poisoning is the culprit in most of the cases. Lead is nasty stuff if you eat it or inhale it. Now way around it, lead consumed in this manner is a deadly poison. Condors eat the gut piles and lost dead game that hunters leave and the lead gets into their systems. This is a fact that is supported by much research and hard scientific testing. To argue against this factual truth will end up costing us complete hunting privileges within the condor habitat. There are alternatives to using led for hunting within this area. I reload and shoot this ammo often. There are several companies who produce these bullets and increased demand will cause the rest of the bullet makers to develop products. Hunters must be conservationlists and continue to work toward the improvement of healthy game/non-game species and the habitat they live in.

[absolootezer0]

how would that work for those of us who cast our own? bans on molds? restrictions on possession of lead?

[MD_Willington_1976]

buy shares in balisticlean and sintered frangible ammo... the us military is going away from lead too.

[dangus]

I'm not worried. I always use steel-tipped bullets when hunting condors. =^D

[dangus]

>> I'm all for DU. <<

Careful making comments like that around here! You could be taken out of context!

[dangus]

>> how would that work for those of us who cast our own? bans on molds? restrictions on possession of lead? <<

Dangit, I'm running out of teeth!

[Yo-Yo]

Careful making comments like that around here! You could be taken out of context!

LOL! Let's see...depleated, very dense, not good for much else...yup, it fits both ways!

[Redcloak]

The greenies would blow a gasket of they pulled that out of a condor's gizzard!

[Carry_Okie]

Lead poisoning is the culprit in most of the cases.

Sources please. According to CDFG, between 1988 and 1999 there were 0 documented cases of mortality due to lead poisoning (see Table 3, page 963). The most common cause was collission and the rest were natural, drownings, coyotes, and starvation. So, if you can't come up with hard data, I'm calling BS.

To argue against this factual truth will end up costing us complete hunting privileges within the condor habitat.

So far, you haven't offered any factual truth, so I await your references. This isn't just about condor habitat. The attack on lead ammunition has been going on for nearly a decade, worldwide. It is an attack on gun rights funded by the left with complicity at the highest levels of government. The responses here are correct in that regard.

BTW, I've been doing botanical habitat restoration for fifteen years.

[stevie_d_64]

I am certainly not surprised by this...

Ammunition was going to be the next stab in our backs from the anti-gun crowd...

This has been expected for the last year or so...

Now that they have a favorable legislative situation in D.C. now...

It was only a matter of time before this floated up again...

We'll just have to do our best to keep it from being another wonderful example of how the liberals/socialist want to screw us over somethign that has absolutely nothing to do with hunting, or any other aspect of owning firearms...

I'm with a lot of the crowd here who keeps a healthy amount of ammunition stuffed away in interesting places around our realm...