Posted on 12/12/2006 5:12:42 PM PST by shrinkermd
Same as my intial thought in reading this. I am a Southern Bapstist minister and have been married for 12 years. Quite often I am tempted to commit adultery on my wife and as a man I would be a liar to say I am not attracted to other woman. By God's grace I have resisted the temptation. It is a choice! I can choose to give in to the temptation or obey God's Word and simply say no. I am sure there are both men and women who are tempted to have homosexual relationships who likewise say no. It's a matter of choice!
I've never had experience treating this kind of problem, but centers do exists for such a thing, just as their are counseling centers and hospitals. Many who suffer from same-sex attraction are helped out of that lifestyle through the help of such places. I imagine Exodus International has information on this.
I'm curious (as a single never married Christian woman)...Reverend...
Have you resisted the temptation to violate your covenant with your wife because of fear of being caught, fear of causing pregnancy, fear of getting an STD, or because you don't want to ruin the trust and intimacy of your relationship with your wife?
I am NOT being sarcastic. I would really like to know the things that keep you from straying with your body (which you are admitting to sinning with your mind already). Do you ever see these other women as giving you something you dont have with your wife? Do you stay sexually faithful to your wife because you would never do anything to wound her, or is it because you don't want to hurt your walk with God?
I am a recovering Pastor's daughter...this would help me understand a lot. Thank you for your honest answer.
Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I truly believe that you have the best intentions of gays at heart. There are some on here who are quick to condemn. You do not appear to be one of them.
As a young pastor, I was one of the first who argued the very points that the NYTimes makes in this article.
However, I think I was also one of the first to see how wrong they were as well.
That means I can tie both sides up on knots, and I'm not above doing so.
Basically, the NYTimes et al make the following argument: "If feels good, I like it, I was born this way, so God must think it's okay too." Unfortunately, after 20+ years of genetic searches, there is no evidence that people are "born this way." Even if they are "born this way," many other practices (ie, alcohol abuse) are outside of the blessing of Christianity, and therefore does not change the conversation.
What gays and lesbians need to argue is that their activities need to moved from the "sin" list to the "blessed" list. To do that, they must compare their activities to things that everyone agrees must stay on the "sin" list (ie, pedophilia), and tell us why their situation is different. However, the minute you get into this conversation with them, most gays and lesbians blow up and leave the room -- they cannot, or will not, have this conversation!!!
The homosexual movement is a cult, just like Jonestown. BTW, Jim Jones was a radical Leftist.
How about drunkenchristians.net? Bankrobberchristians.net? Childmolesterchristians.net? Serialkillerchristians.net?
A combination of all these things. I love the Lord and I love my wife. When tempted I consider the cost and determine it would not be worth the consequences. I know it is contrary to God's Word. Such failure would hinder my fellowship with the Lord, destroy the ministry He has entrusted to me, and devastate the woman I love. I never wish to hurt anyone as much as my first wife hurt me. I sought God ten years for the spouse He has blessed me with today. In seeking God for her, I vowed to Him that I would not abuse or harm her. In my younger years I was very promiscuous and have always had a strong sexual desire for the opposite sex -- having slept with many. It is one of my many confessed sins. I was a drunk and drug addict for ten years as well, of which the Lord miraculously delivered me. I do somewhat have a litte fear as to what disciplinary action the Lord may take would I betray the trust of Him and my wife. It is certainly a deterant! We all have strengths and weaknesses, the Lord knows them all. The Lord also knows the heart and deals with us accordingly. I hope sharing with you has shed some light on your thoughts.
I don't see where he admitted to "sinning with (his) mind." Being tempted isn't a sin, and being attracted isn't a sin. Whether we sin depends on what our minds do with those urges and attractions.
Ping
What gays and lesbians need to argue is that their activities need to moved from the "sin" list to the "blessed" list. To do that, they must compare their activities to things that everyone agrees must stay on the "sin" list (ie, pedophilia), and tell us why their situation is different. However, the minute you get into this conversation with them, most gays and lesbians blow up and leave the room -- they cannot, or will not, have this conversation!!!
>>It's because you've won the argument. They know they're wrong and that their passions are disordered, and that's why they act the way they do. They belong to a denial cult.
BTW, Jim Jones was gay.
The article is simply riddled with misconceptions and misunderstandings. Apparently a journalist thinks she can skim over the surface millimeter of a massive scripture and also achieve mastery of all the medical literature of sexuality by sending a few emails to a gay web site proprietor and typing up a few cleverly interwoven slogans from the atheist/socialist playbook.
The Bible and homosexuality
"Main article: The Bible and homosexuality The Bible is regarded by most Christians as inspired by God or at least recording God's relationship with humanity and includes within it certain moral teachings. Passages from the Bible commonly used in the debate over homosexuality include Leviticus 18 and 21, Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:10, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Jude 7. The arguments over these passages have centered on the extent to which these passages are still relevant; whether they refer only to certain sexual acts or to homosexual orientation; and how they should be interpreted, understood and applied...
...Many Church Fathers condemned homosexuality [1]. In his fourth homily on Romans [2], St. John Chrysostom argued in the fourth century that homosexual intercourse is worse than murder and so degrading that it constitutes a kind of punishment in itself, and that their enjoyment actually makes it worse, "for suppose I were to see a person running naked, with his body all besmeared with mire, and yet not covering himself, but exulting in it, I should not rejoice with him, but should rather bewail that he did not even perceive that he was doing shamefully." He also said:
But nothing can there be more worthless than a man who has pandered himself. For not the soul only, but the body also of one who hath been so treated, is disgraced, and deserves to be driven out everywhere.
The Council of Ancyra (314) prescribed a penance of at least twenty years' duration for those guilty of "bestial lust" [3]. There is dispute whether this reference is to homosexuality or bestiality, but it was received in the West as governing penances for sodomy...
An earlier Doctor of the Church, St. Peter Damian, wrote the Liber Gomorrhianus, an extended attack on both homosexuality and masturbation [12]. He portrayed homosexuality as a counter-rational force undermining morality, religion, and society itself [13], and in need of strong suppression lest it spread even and especially among clergy [14]....
The point is many in the clergy have had very different views and remedies on the basis of Scripture. It also seems the approach to homosexual acts has evolved over time as well. It is not an easy subject to discuss but the section on homosexuality and Greece as well as Rome gives even a different perspective.
It starts with the individual surrendering to the power of the living God, or the Holy Spirit, in faith that a force greater than the self can achieve what the individual cannot. The person may work with a pastor, therapist or counselor who is trained to support people struggling with these issues, or he or she may rely on some combination of prayer, scripture study, workshops, journaling or various other approaches. Release and healing may take years and thus it requires patience, and friends who are supportive in faith that God is still working miracles to this day.
Jesus said some things only come out by prayer AND fasting. Sexual sin is a very powerful sin. The Bible tells how Joseph, when Potipher's wife tried to seduce him, he RAN AWAY! That is the attitude we need to have with sexual sin, or with any sin, for that matter. How serious, really, are we?? What really are the desires of our hearts?? What really are our secret thoughts?? If we really want to see this nation changed, we can no longer rely on half hearted prayers, half hearted commitment. If you stop feeding something long enough, it will die. In what way are you really praying? Are you always pleading with God?? Maybe you need to begin speaking to the mountain yourself! Speak to it again, and again and again. When the Israelites spied out the land, and returned, when most said "there are Giants in the land ", though they were speaking facts, God considered it an evil report! Joshua had a different Spirit! He knew that God had given them the land! That is the spirit we need! That is the attitude we need! "It is written, therefore I believe, and I will not be moved!"
You're right, I'm not one to condemn any person struggling with such a difficult thing as same-sex attraction.
Thank you, Pastor Evangmlw. Very sincere & humble answer. Yes, it helps me understand.
As for XJCSA's comment to me, it doesn't matter what you or I think or believe about whether thoughts are sinful. Jesus Himself said with His own lips that "I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt 5:28)
It is the standard and the measure of our Creator and Savior that determines what is acceptable or not. I'm sure the Reverend would admit he was not wanting to play tennis with these attractive women he has looked upon! A repentant heart receives mercy and grace and forgiveness when sin is acknowledged, but it must be fully acknowledged and not minimized or justified to qualify. God's love is unconditional, but His forgiveness and redemption are NOT. They are dependent on our acknowledgement and repentence of our sin in its most disgusting and revolting form.
The Reverend walks in that grace, clearly. So should we all. Whether we desire intimacy with the same sex, or with the opposite sex.
He stated that He did not need to come to preach to the righteous but to sinners, He also stated that the healthy were not in need of a physician but the sick.
He came, not to condemn but to "seek and save the lost."
He did, however, say to the sinners to, "Your sins are forgiven now go and sin no more," not "Since you were given a different brain chemistry by God, the Father, therefore what you practice isn't really sin but an alterhative lifestyle.'"
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