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Libertarian GOP defection?
Townhall.com ^ | Tuesday, December 12, 2006 | Bruce Bartlett

Posted on 12/12/2006 7:37:39 AM PST by Small-L

For many years, those who consider themselves to be libertarians have been fairly reliable members of the Republican coalition. Although no libertarian would consider himself or herself to be entirely in agreement with either major party, they have historically sided with the GOP. But the relationship today seems more deeply strained than any time in the last 30 years, and a divorce may be forthcoming.

Basically, libertarians are allied with the right on economic issues and the left on everything else. They believe in the free market and freedom of choice in areas such as drugs, and favor a noninterventionist foreign policy. Consequently, someone who is a libertarian could prefer to ally with the right or the left, depending on what set of issues is most important to him or her.

I first became aware of the libertarian philosophy in 1969, when there was a big split in a college-based group called Young Americans for Freedom, which was supposed to be the right-wing alternative to the left's Students for a Democratic Society. The libertarians broke with those who considered themselves traditionalists -- conservatives in the mold of Edmund Burke and Russell Kirk.

The problem for the libertarians was that they didn't want to conserve anything. Whereas the conservatives prized order and continuity, the libertarians were radicals favoring change. The traditionalists in YAF viewed the libertarians with horror, like the Jacobins of the French Revolution, who destroyed the existing order without putting anything in its place, leading to a reign of terror.

The libertarians countered by associating themselves with the American revolutionary tradition of Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry and others. The true conservative, they argued, must defend both the bad and the good in the existing order. But what if there are deep problems in government and society that require change? The conservative traditionalist has little to offer.

In 1969, the key issue was obviously the Vietnam War. The traditionalists supported it, the libertarians opposed it. But drugs were also an important issue dividing the groups. Libertarians believe people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies, even if they end up hurting themselves in the process. Traditionalists take a more Puritanical approach, believing that people must be protected against their own folly.

Consequently, when I first became acquainted with libertarianism, most libertarians tended to associate with those on the left, where they had more in common. But with the end of the Vietnam War and the huge rise of inflation and other economic problems in the 1970s, libertarians mostly tended to drift rightward.

In the 1970s, the left was clueless about how to fix the economy. They had no idea what was causing inflation and insisted on dealing instead with its symptoms through wage and price controls. The left at that time was also highly sympathetic to socialism and often favor nationalization of businesses like the Penn Central Railroad when bankruptcy threatened.

The right at least understood that excessive money growth by the Federal Reserve caused inflation, and that socialism and nationalization were crazy. So most libertarians moved into the Republican Party, which then had leaders like Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, who spoke their language and had libertarian sympathies.

With the passing of the older generation of Republican leaders who were at least sympathetic to the libertarian message, a new generation of Puritans have taken over the party. They seem to want nothing more than to impose Draconian new laws against drugs, gambling, pornography and other alleged vices. The new Republican Puritans don't trust people or believe that they have the right to do as they please as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. They want the government to impose itself on peoples' lives and deny them freedom of choice.

At the same time, the Iraq War has aroused the isolationist impulse among libertarians. Only a tiny number of them supported the war in the first place, and they have all now recanted. Moreover, Republicans have lost whatever credibility they once had on economics by indulging in an orgy spending and corruption, and by becoming very unreliable allies on issues such as free trade and government regulation of the economy.

Consequently, many libertarians are drifting back once again to the left, where they find more compatible allies on some of the key issues of the day. And a few on the left are reaching out to libertarians, or at least trying to open a dialogue where there really hasn't been one for a long time.

Libertarians probably don't represent more than 10 percent of the electorate at most and are easy for political consultants to ignore. But they are represented in much larger percentages among opinion leaders and thus have influence disproportionate to their numbers. Republicans will miss them if they leave the party en masse.


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: allcrybabies; defection; gop; leavewhiners; libertarian; losertarians
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To: Small-L
Have you read The Virtue of Selfishness?
Ayn Rand was a capitalist.

Are you suggesting she was a dopehead?
You've got my attention, so why don't you educate me.
181 posted on 12/12/2006 4:09:49 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: aft_lizard
BS we need you more. I would like to see one study that says Republicans cant win without libertarianistas.

Uh, that's what I said, right?

182 posted on 12/12/2006 4:17:07 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Why can't Republicans stand up to Democrats like they do to terrorists?)
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To: Beagle8U

Well, at least your dislike for libertarians and republicans is starting to make more sense.


183 posted on 12/12/2006 4:17:20 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Dave S

Sorry Dave,

But money sent to Africa for aids are political decisions to appease the world gay groups. You don't hear conservative Christians screaming for more aids dollars. We believe in abstinence. The only true way to combat aids.

Also, when family decisions involve murder, it is the government's duty to defend and protect. Unlike some "liberaltarians," Christians are not anarchists.


184 posted on 12/12/2006 4:18:23 PM PST by Waryone
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To: Antoninus
There are a lot of Libertarians who are Christians. That one Libertarian candidate who ran in Indiana for example, he was a Christian and taught Bible study on Sundays. Other Libertarians lean pro-life.

Please explain to me how preaching in people's faces like Republican politicians do & telling them they're going to Hell is going to win them over.

185 posted on 12/12/2006 4:19:40 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Why can't Republicans stand up to Democrats like they do to terrorists?)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

My bad, reading comprehension isnt always one of my better abilities.


186 posted on 12/12/2006 4:48:23 PM PST by aft_lizard (born conservative...I chose to be a republican)
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To: HEY4QDEMS
You've got my attention, so why don't you educate me.

Yes, and I struggled through Alas Shrugged as well. Try these:

Rand the Libertarian
Ayn Rand’s Q&A on Libertarians
Ayn Rand - Libertarian
Wikipedia: Ayn Rand

187 posted on 12/12/2006 5:00:35 PM PST by Small-L
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To: oblomov

Why did you ping me with your "Reagan facts" ???

I've made no statement regarding RWR.

And the only side I am willing to on is the side of the citizen and taxpayer.


188 posted on 12/12/2006 7:31:55 PM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006)
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To: Poser
Well, I voted for the Republicans and I got Democrats anyway. It's time to kick the big-government Republicans out and start over. Can we start over with a new contract for America and actually try to make it work?

BUMP!

189 posted on 12/12/2006 7:58:56 PM PST by NoCurrentFreeperByThatName (You lie, cheat and steal.)
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To: Dave S

Christian hater.


190 posted on 12/12/2006 10:52:43 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: Small-L
libertarians take it in the ear from FReepers every day out here

With good reason.

191 posted on 12/12/2006 10:53:18 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: mysterio
punch the libertarians in the face, and demand a vote

Since when have Republicans begged for the support of libertarians? You give yourself too much credit. I say, take a hike...no one needs your vote.

192 posted on 12/12/2006 10:56:30 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: Dave S
doubt anything led to more Republican loses this year in the election than GOP meddling in the Schaivo case.

Thank you for articulately, perfectly, why libertarians are frauds when it comes to protecting the inherent rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence, "Life" being the foremost. If government can't step in and protect against the kind of selfish horror that was incarnate in Michael Schiavo, government has lost its legitimacy. I'll never be aligned with you monsters.

193 posted on 12/12/2006 11:02:14 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: Preachin'
It's only a "big-tent" in your view if I shut up and vote your way.

That's rich. For nine years on this forum I've been watching R's literally demand, coerce, and threaten us small 'l's for our votes.

The difference is that the GOP is a place where you have to work.

Been there, done that. I've won two elections as an R. How many have you won? In spite of dozens of warnings from 'low level' elected R's the IL GOP gave us George Ryan and Judy Barr Topinka. You want us to hang out with those two? Don' think so.

Did you notice I am not over in the LP attempting to tell everyone to be pro-life.

I'm anti-abortion. What's your point?

L

194 posted on 12/13/2006 6:01:42 AM PST by Lurker (Historys most dangerous force is government and the crime syndicates that grow with it.)
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To: My2Cents
I guess I didn't know that the GOP had that many votes to spare.

Maybe it's time that those who have been voting for Republicans in the hope of smaller, less obtrusive government, end of the welfare state, lower taxes, less corrupution, and immigration control that works find another party to vote for. It's obvious that the Republicans don't stand for those things and based on your assertion, they don't want to.

195 posted on 12/13/2006 6:46:23 AM PST by Small-L
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To: Small-L
From your link. "Ayn Rand's Q&A on Libertarians" which I can only guess you didn't read. She hates Libertarians, (for the record I do not) and considers the entire movement a joke run by a bunch of hippies.

As I said Ayn Rand is a proponent of capitalism.

And, unless you can prove otherwise I'll will assume she was NOT a dopehead.

Here is the Body of the link you provided:


Q: What do you think of the Libertarian movement? [FHF: “The Moratorium on Brains,” 1971]

AR: All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies, except that they’re anarchists instead of collectivists. But of course, anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet they want to combine capitalism and anarchism. That is worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism, because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. The anarchist is the scum of the intellectual world of the left, which has given them up. So the right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the Libertarian movement.

Q: What do you think of the Libertarian Party? [FHF: “A Nation’s Unity,” 1972]

AR: I’d rather vote for Bob Hope, the Marx Brothers, or Jerry Lewis. I don’t think they’re as funny as Professor Hospers and the Libertarian Party. If, at a time like this, John Hospers takes ten votes away from Nixon (which I doubt he’ll do), it would be a moral crime. I don’t care about Nixon, and I care even less about Hospers. But this is no time to engage in publicity seeking, which all these crank political parties are doing. If you want to spread your ideas, do it through education. But don’t run for President—or even dogcatcher—if you’re going to help McGovern.

Q: What is your position on the Libertarian Party? [FHF: “Censorship: Local and Express,” 1973]

AR: I don’t want to waste too much time on it. It’s a cheap attempt at publicity, which Libertarians won’t get. Today’s events, particularly Watergate, should teach anyone with amateur political notions that they cannot rush into politics in order to get publicity. The issue is so serious today, that to form a new party based in part on half-baked ideas, and in part on borrowed ideas—I won’t say from whom—is irresponsible, and in today’s context, nearly immoral.

Q: Libertarians advocate the politics you advocate. So why are you opposed to the Libertarian Party? [FHF: “Egalitarianism and Inflation,” 1974]

AR:They are not defenders of capitalism. They’re a group of publicity seekers who rush into politics prematurely, because they allegedly want to educate people through a political campaign, which can’t be done. Further, their leadership consists of men of every of persuasion, from religious conservatives to anarchists. Moreover, most of them are my enemies: they spend their time denouncing me, while plagiarizing my ideas. Now, I think it’s a bad beginning for an allegedly pro-capitalist party to start by stealing ideas.

Q: Have you ever heard of [Libertarian presidential candidate] Roger MacBride? [FHF: “?” 1976]

AR: My answer should be, “I haven’t.” There’s nothing to hear. I have been maintaining in everything I have said and written, that the trouble in the world today is philosophical; that only the right philosophy can save us. Now here is a party that plagiarizes some of my ideas, mixes it with the exact opposite—with religionists, anarchists, and just about every intellectual misfit and scum they can find—and they call themselves Libertarians, and run for office. I dislike Reagan and Carter; I’m not too enthusiastic about the other candidates. But the worst of them are giants compared to anybody who would attempt something as un-philosophical, low, and pragmatic as the Libertarian Party. It is the last insult to ideas and philosophical consistency.

Q: Do you think Libertarians communicate the ideas of freedom and capitalism effectively? [Q&A following LP’s “Objective Communication,” Lecture 1, 1980]

AR: I don’t think plagiarists are effective. I’ve read nothing by a Libertarian (when I read them, in the early years) that wasn’t my ideas badly mishandled—i.e., had the teeth pulled out of them—with no credit given. I didn’t know whether I should be glad that no credit was given, or disgusted. I felt both. They are perhaps the worst political group today, because they can do the most harm to capitalism, by making it disreputable.

Q: Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

Q: The Libertarians are providing intermediate steps toward your goals. Why don’t you support them? [Ibid., 1981]

AR: Please don’t tell me they’re pursuing my goals. I have not asked for, nor do I accept, the help of intellectual cranks. I want philosophically educated people: those who understand ideas, care about ideas, and spread the right ideas. That’s how my philosophy will spread, just as philosophy has throughout all history: by means of people who understand and teach it to others. Further, it should be clear that I do not endorse the filthy slogan, “The end justifies the means.” That was originated by the Jesuits, and accepted enthusiastically by Communists and Nazis. The end does not justify the means; you cannot achieve anything good by evil means. Finally, the Libertarians aren’t worthy of being the means to any end, let alone the end of spreading Objectivism.

196 posted on 12/13/2006 7:18:24 AM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: My2Cents

Sounds like you are the one witht the hateful heart. Better ask for forgiveness!


197 posted on 12/13/2006 8:06:29 AM PST by Dave S
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To: Beagle8U
"I've always said that Libertarians are nothing more than armed liberals that don't want to pay taxes."

Basically.

But taxes take the back-burner when set against their real issue...they want license. Not Liberty....license. There is a tremendous difference between the two.

That is the bottomline.

198 posted on 12/13/2006 8:10:35 AM PST by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: My2Cents
If government can't step in and protect against the kind of selfish horror that was incarnate in Michael Schiavo, government has lost its legitimacy. I'll never be aligned with you monsters.

You mean MEDDLE in a case that had been litigated to death. Government worked. You just didnt like the results. Kind of like pharmacists who dont own their own pharmacy dont have a choice over whether they must sell day after pill/contraceptives. You probably dont like the fact that in most states a pharmacist can be fired for not being willing to fill a lawful prescription.

199 posted on 12/13/2006 8:13:12 AM PST by Dave S
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To: VaBthang4
I try to not post anything on Libertarian threads but sometimes its hard to not offer an opinion.

I don't think the "everything but violent crime" should be legal crowd will ever get their wish. Even if they don't take it to that extreme, they come off that way at times.
200 posted on 12/13/2006 8:38:05 AM PST by Beagle8U
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