Britain to US: Share JSF Technology or No Deal

DefenceTalk.com ^

[DTAD]

Britain should cancel a deal with the United States to purchase Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) jets if America does not share sensitive technology by the end of the year, a report by the parliamentary defense committee will say, the Financial Times reported on Dec.8.

The yearly report on British weapons spending, which is due to be released Dec. 8, says “it is still uncertain whether the U.S. is prepared to provide the required information”, despite Prime Minister Tony Blair and President George W. Bush agreeing in May that Britain would get the technology it needed.

[MadMitch]

F*-off then? We'll sell it to Israel, Japan, and Poland
________________________________________________________

I'm sure Israel and Japan will be willing to replace the British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with their own troops.

[CountryBumpkin]

You are making the same mistake as others on this thread. Making leap-of-logic assumptions about other opinions to draw a conclusion. I don't think I have seen a response on this thread that states we should abandon the Brits as an ally. The U.S. has had a very close relationship with Britain for hundreds of years. Nothing is going to change that anytime soon. However, that does not mean that the U.S. should bend over when a longtime ally inappropriately uses that relationship through political grandstanding as a means to force the U.S. into handing over all aspects of sensitive technology when the U.S. is hesitant to do so. Ally or not, the U.S. should worry about the U.S. first, including common sense protection of its intellectual property whenever the U.S. deems it necessary, no matter who demands it. I am not saying to intentionally screw Britain or abandon it as an ally. In fact, you have no knowledge of what my position on the subject is. So kindly leave me out of that broad accusation. The U.S. and Britain already hand over more cutting-edge sensitive technology to each other than the average person comprehends, and that flow is not about to stop anytime soon. However, in this particular case, Britain needs to more appropriately address a large hand that feeds it and the best ally Britain will ever have. The U.S. and Britain need each other equally. It is not a way one street in either direction.

[evad]

I will vote for Hillary Clinton for President, before I will vote for John McCain.

Yikes!

Is the Dog ok??

[Pukin Dog]

The U.S. has found E.U. Anti-descrimination work rules in variance with security measures needed to insure that no one has access to the software without having undergone a U.S. certified security background check. The U.K. has so far refused these checks due to their conflict with E.U. immigration laws. The wording is part of the development contract signed between the U.K. and U.S. for the sale of the JSF. You can disagree or object, but the U.K. signed on the dotted line, and are now saying that they cannot guarantee the backgrounds of persons who would have access to the weapons system.

In response, the U.S. has said "Then pound sand, because you aint getting the code."

[Pukin Dog]

The Dog is fine, McCain is not.

[Don Joe]

Your country at this moment appears to be a playground for Russian spies and Muslim extremists.

Get back with us when you have your own house in order before demanding that we give you our strategic national secrets.

[Vanders9]

F*-off then? We'll sell it to Israel, Japan, and Poland.


Umm...I thought the point of the article was that we WANTED to buy it, but the US werent prepared to sell...

[Vanders9]

F*-off then? We'll sell it to Israel, Japan, and Poland.


Umm...I thought the point of the article was that we WANTED to buy it, but the US werent prepared to sell...

[Vanders9]

I wouldn't be against a swap of a JSF F35 OFP source release to the Brits in exchange for the recipe to that
Chobham armor (or armour, as you wish). I'm pretty confident
that its as safe from disclosure in their hands as it is in ours.


I'm pretty sure we gave the US the secrets of Chobham armor (armour :) ) already, not to mention jump jet technology, L7 105mm guns, angled flight decks, steam catapults and making artillery out of titanium (M777). I'm fairly certain your defence industry would have figured most of those out by now anyway, (or indeed come up with better versions). Anything that can be made can be duplicated by a second party eventually. Advances in military technology only put you ahead for a limited amount of time.

[rbosque]

No deal.

[Vanders9]

what a crock of ^%£&!

Security checks, by their very nature, are discriminatory. Thats the whole point of them! It would therefore seem, if your statement is true, that this squabble rests on what criteria the US checks have that contradicts what the UK considers is ok. Of course, we have no idea what the discrepancies might be, but I think we can probably guess...

[Vanders9]

The program has already fallen apart. Cowardly Republicans managed to keep it going through their control, but it is slated for the Democrat chopping block, and there will be little to no Republican complaining about it. This is all noise.


If thats true then the whole argument is pretty much irrelevant anyway.

[Vanders9]

Britain is so leaky and has been been constantly penetrated by bad guys. JUST SAY NO!


Yes, but the point is that you only know about those spys and traitors because THEY GOT CAUGHT!

The dangerous spys are the one that you DONT know about. Caught many in the US recently?

[Vanders9]

see reply 17 then.

[Vanders9]

Your country at this moment appears to be a playground for Russian spies and Muslim extremists.

Get back with us when you have your own house in order before demanding that we give you our strategic national secrets.


See reply 53. Also, we caught the muslim extremists attempting to hijack planes. You didnt.

[timer]

Bogus Bill taught us not to give away sensitive technology, even to HIM, as he'll turn right around and sell it to the enemy chinese. No, no secret stealth technology to the brits or the israelis, we're VERY picky virgins when advanced technology is our only edge over the barbarian hordes out there only too ready and willing to kill all americans. Sorry, but YOUR "sorry" just doesn't cut it when one of your own sells this technology for a pittance, and millions of us die because of it....NO DEAL!

[Don Joe]

See reply 53. Also, we caught the muslim extremists attempting to hijack planes. You didnt.

Nice "stiff upper lip", eh wot?

Sorry, but no cigar (no loss though -- cigars and "stiff upper lips" are not a viable match).

Anyway, get back with us when you finally put a lid on that "Spy Vs. Spy, Polonium Style" business. Oh, and nice work with the subway attack. Shooting that innocent kid in the back was very impressive work!

I repeat: Your country at this moment appears to be a playground for Russian spies and Muslim extremists.

Get back with us when you have your own house in order before demanding that we give you our strategic national secrets.

PS: It's not that impressive to catch "muslim extremists attempting to hijack planes" FIVE YEARS after we took the Pearl Harbor shot for the civilized world. You had plenty of time to figure out to look for 'em.

On the other hand, IIRC Spain took the first train "Pearl Harbor Shot" -- yet, you took one too! Lesson NOT learned?

But, getting back to catching "muslim extremists attempting to hijack planes" -- there's an old fable -- English, perhaps? -- called something like, "The Little Tailor". The "hero" (snicker) liked to go around showing off his big belt buckle that said, "I Killed SEVEN with ONE Blow!"

I don't know why that just popped into my mind (innocent grin), I guess it just did, for no particular reason.

Finally, while we're still on the topic of stopping "muslim extremists attempting to hijack planes", I'm sure you're aware that WE have been doing that -- successfully -- SINCE 9/11.

Cheerio, and all that rot.

[Don Joe]

For those unfamiliar with "The Little Tailor", the "seven" that he "killed with one blow" -- and boasted incessantly about -- well... what it was, was that he swatted at some flies, and... and killed seven of 'em, with one blow!

The moral of the story, of course, is that if you manage to swat seven flies, don't make a big brass belt-buckle emblazoned with the drama, swaggering around like king of the mountain.

[Diggadave]

If you want your allies to back you up and relieve you of the burdens you have shouldered you will have to work with them. Let them develop independant capabilities or form a real European army and you loose their dependence on US leadership.

In 1940 the Germans said they would ring Britain's neck like a chicken. In 1942 Churchill said: Some chicken! Some neck!

Without Britain, Europe would speak German and America would have sheltered from German rockets, German nuclear capabilities and a not-so-cold war with an enemy capable of anything.

[Vanders9]

One. Who is saying sorry? What do I have to say sorry for?

Two. Who sold it for a pittance, and how have "millions of us died for it" Died for what. What are you talking about?