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To: metmom
Well, metmom, I think that what happened is that he assumed you were of the same opinion as most creationists that the earth is some 6000 years old. This date is reached by adding up the given ages of biblical figures and then matching known dates to events described in the rest of the bible.

If you do not believe that earth is only 6000 years old, why then do you not accept evolution? One could easily interpret the passages of Genesis to be a description of God laying the foundations of life. With evolution taking place thereafter.
Genesis 1:20, And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Sounds like a decent enough description of the beginning of life to me (except that there's about 400 million years between the first land animals and "fowl", and some 3.5 billion years between the first life and the first land creatures, but we'll let that slide). But you seem to be certain there is just no way that this is the case. Why is that? Why are these passages meant to be taken literally, viz., they are not open to interpretation or allegorical reading, but the words of Jesus are?

I don't understand how you make the distinction between the two.
111 posted on 12/12/2006 10:47:21 AM PST by 49th (Freedom is the distance between Church and State)
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To: 49th
Sounds like a decent enough description of the beginning of life to me (except that there's about 400 million years between the first land animals and "fowl", and some 3.5 billion years between the first life and the first land creatures, but we'll let that slide).
 
Let's see if there are OTHER verses that muight shed light on how fast GOD works.....
 

Isa 48:3 ... I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of My mouth, and I shewed them; I did [them] SUDDENLY, and they came to pass.

Indeed!!

Genesis 1
1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3. And God
said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

This is a GOD who creates by speaking; but; how LONG did it take?


Now Jesus was a man who had God-like powers. Was HE God? The Book says so.......

NIV Colossians 1:13-17
13. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
17. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

NIV Revelation 4:11
"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

NIV Revelation 10:6
And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!

 

Notice that when this man speaks, things happen RIGHT NOW! Not after some times passes and Nature takes it's course.

NIV Matthew 8:2-3
2. A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
3. Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he

said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured of his leprosy.

NIV Matthew 21:19
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he
said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

NIV Mark 1:41-42
41. Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he
said. "Be clean!"
42. Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured.

NIV Mark 5:41-42
41. He took her by the hand and
said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!").
42. Immediately the girl stood up and walked around (she was twelve years old). At this they were completely astonished.

NIV Mark 10:51-52
51. "What do you want me to do for you?" Jesus asked him. The blind man said, "Rabbi, I want to see."
52. "Go,"
said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

NIV Luke 5:13
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he
said. "Be clean!" And Immediately the leprosy left him.

NIV Luke 5:24-25
24. But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ." He
said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home."
25. Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God.

NIV Luke 8:44
She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and Immediately her bleeding stopped.

NIV Luke 13:12-13
12. When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and
said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity."
13. Then he put his hands on her, and Immediately she straightened up and praised God.

NIV Luke 18:42-43
42. Jesus
said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has healed you."
43. Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus, praising God. When all the people saw it, they also praised God.

NIV Acts 9:33-35
33. There he found a man named Aeneas, a paralytic who had been bedridden for eight years.
34. "Aeneas," Peter
said to him, "Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and take care of your mat." Immediately Aeneas got up.
35. All those who lived in Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord.

NIV Matthew 8:13
 Then Jesus
said to the centurion, "Go! It will be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

NIV Matthew 15:28
 Then Jesus
answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

 

Now if this same personage, who does things in an instant; how LONG would it take Him to CREATE all that we find around us???



113 posted on 12/12/2006 11:36:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: 49th; Elsie
See some of Elsie's posts. I believe God created everything because Scripture states it regularly and often. It's not a matter of finding an odd verse of two and taking them out of context or reading into it. There are many and many which Jesus Himself stated. I believe that God created plant and animal life because it talks about it in very specific terms. It states that He created animals *after their kind*. It doesn't indicate that they arose from each other. That's why I don't accept speciation. Variation in species happens but that is not the same as speciation; species to species evolution.

Scripture is quite clear that man came about as a separate act of creation. God saw that all He created was good and then decided to make man. It specifically states that He created man from the dust of the earth. If man had evolved, why would He go to the trouble of making that distinction?

As far as the age of the Earth, I am familiar with Ussher's Chronology and how he determined it but that is not Scripture itself. It is his calculations based on some assumptions he made. If the Bible itself clearly gave a specific date for the moment and week of creation, then I would accept that but it doesn't. There are many other reputable Christians and Biblical scholars that have different views on the age of the earth for several different reasons. This is one:
The Age of the Universe
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1576941/posts

As far as one of the issues with the age of the earth is the assumption that everything has always been as it is now. When man sinned, Scripture says that corruption entered the world. That indicates a change of condition in the physical world. In Genesis, there are descriptions of the world before the Flood and the conditions that existed then and they are different than they are now, another change. Those could throw a huge monkey wrench into the calculations of the age of the earth by radiometric dating and other geologic processes that could have proceeded at different rates. There have even been some cases where these processes aren't proceeding as expected even today. The Lost Squadron is one such example; the planes from WWII were found buried under 250 feet if ice in Greenland which doesn't fit at all with currently accepted ice built up time frames.

When the Bible states that something happened, there is no reason to interpret it in any other way. When poetry, allegories, parables are being used, it's pretty clear what they are and anyone with any working knowledge of grammar would know that those are not literal, especially when it is said *He told them this parable*. How can one be reasonably expected to take a clearly stated parable literally?

So I accept that God created things in the manner He did because it states it so clearly. The age of the earth and universe is more indeterminate, IMO.

However, not accepting the current scientific interpretation of the fossil record does not equate with a blanket rejection of science as a whole. Science does not rest on the ToE; the ToE rests on science. It's science as it stands today that is being used to support the ToE but the ToE cannot be used to support science. Also, there is the automatic assumption that if there's a discrepancy between science and Scripture, the Bible is automatically the document that is wrong because it doesn't agree with current scientific findings. But current scientific findings are just that- current, and are subject to change as new data comes in. Once new findings come in, the older scientific findings were shown to be incomplete of outright wrong. So how can something that subject to change be used to *disprove* something else? In order to do that it would have to be established beyond a shadow of a doubt that the science is right, true, and infallible and I don't think it's arrived there yet.

122 posted on 12/12/2006 4:05:05 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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