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Pinochet Has Died
Fox News | 12-10-06

Posted on 12/10/2006 9:46:26 AM PST by My Favorite Headache

Hell has a new employee...Pinochet is dead at 91.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chile; chileansavior; commiekiller; commiethwacker; dictator; leavehimbe; pinochet; tookoutthetrash
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To: CitadelArmyJag

I am against communism. However, I simply believe that Pinochet- or whichever anti-communist leader that could have removed Allende- should not have used the tactics that Pinochet used. Furthermore, I do not believe what Pinochet did is equivalent to fighting lawless fanatic jihadis in Iraq or Afghanistan.


241 posted on 12/10/2006 12:51:54 PM PST by RightCenter
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To: RightCenter

I am in total agreement with you!


242 posted on 12/10/2006 12:52:55 PM PST by gabidale89
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To: My Favorite Headache

Count me among the people who think Pinochet was a net positive. He stopped the Communists from taking over, and when a workable time arrived stepped down and allowed the democratic process to resume


243 posted on 12/10/2006 12:53:50 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: eleni121

Furthermore, from the article you linked to me yourself:

"Not to be misunderstood, this does not make Pinochet's crimes ok. The murder of innocents is never justified whether the crimes are committed by the left or the right. On the other hand, there is not a conservative known to me who has denied in print that Pinochet killed a lot of innocent people or who has argued that these deaths were either justified or necessary. It would probably take a leftist to make that kind of case."

I'm sorry, but I feel like laughing at your choice of text to discredit me with.


244 posted on 12/10/2006 12:54:16 PM PST by RightCenter
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To: RightCenter
But how can you sure that he only killed enemies and threats? Are there documents that support that most of the people he killed were enemies? Oh wait, no, because he usually didn't have trials for them!

You are correct, there is no way to know for sure... such is the horror of war.

245 posted on 12/10/2006 12:55:50 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: RightCenter

Let me ask you this, which -assuming that you consider either to be wrong- was worse: Pinochet detaining and killing some 2,000 people in an internal war to stop communist incursion; or the United States using the atomic bomb to incinerate over 100,000 people in a city virtually devoid of any targets of military necessity in order to stop the imperial japenese?


246 posted on 12/10/2006 12:56:51 PM PST by CitadelArmyJag ("Tolerance is the virtue of the man with no convictions" G. K. Chesterton)
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To: Professor Kill
That sounds awful. Thank goodness Pinochet prevented that by performing a bloody military coup that totally subverted the Chilean constitution and turned Chile into a dictatorship. If not for Pinochet, there might have been decades of political repression, torture, secret police, disappearances, and government-sponsored terror. Chile really dodged a bullet.

That's right. Faced with the horrors of a stalinist state, Chile wound up with a vibrant economy and a level of oppression and deaths that pales in comparison to anything the marxists would have done.

247 posted on 12/10/2006 12:57:13 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: gabidale89

We all defend democracy-- so did Pinochet who voluntarily set his nation back on the right track to its democratic institutions!

You need to revisit the historical forces going on at the time because given you line of reasoning OBL is on your side. OBL wants "free elections" too in saudi arabia and turkey and the rest of the vermin infested Muslim countries where radicals are more numerous than the other zombies...wouldn't that be nice.


248 posted on 12/10/2006 12:57:23 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: CitadelArmyJag

Personally, I think the U.S. should have dropped the bomb on a military target (or in Tokyo Bay- that should catch the imperialists' attentions), but I also consider the U.S. to have saved the lives of the JAPANESE with the nuke by not forcing the war to a halt, thus causing no more civilians to starve to death or soldiers to die in combat.

Pinochet, on the other hand, practiced military dictatorship and terror through the state.

So I'll go with Pinochet being worse, obviously, since the use of a-bombs in WWII was the correct thing to do. Though I'd quibble with the details, but that's another matter.


249 posted on 12/10/2006 1:02:10 PM PST by RightCenter
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To: My Favorite Headache

I caught my pinochet in my zipper once


250 posted on 12/10/2006 1:02:26 PM PST by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: Melas
Something is very, very wrong here that we have some so-called conservatives who're willing to give the guy a pass because he only murdered a few thousand people

Civil wars are ugly affairs, usually with a high bodycount. If the Communists had come to power, the bodycount would have been higher, but I guess our consciences would have been cleaner.

Personally, I prefer the outcome that occured. No mass liquidation of the Chilean middle class. Chile now with a prosperous economy. Two thousand dead Communists is an acceptable price

251 posted on 12/10/2006 1:03:48 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: Rodney King

You're talking as if the only two choices could have been a nightmare Marxist state under Allende or the sort of military dictatorship Pinochet created.


252 posted on 12/10/2006 1:03:50 PM PST by RightCenter
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To: RightCenter

Tyr laughing at the untold millions who have died under ruthless left wing dictatorships===in contrast to the miniscule number in authoritarian conservative regimes.

The main pont of Horowitz's seems to be lost on you: that Pinochet was the right person to save Chile.


253 posted on 12/10/2006 1:04:03 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: Professor Kill
If not for Pinochet, there might have been decades of political repression, torture, secret police, disappearances, and government-sponsored terror. Chile really dodged a bullet.

Yeah, Cuba did much better.

254 posted on 12/10/2006 1:04:38 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
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To: Rodney King

That excuses nothing. Atrocity is atrocity. Wrongness is wrongness. Don't advocate moral relativism.


255 posted on 12/10/2006 1:04:42 PM PST by RightCenter
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To: eleni121

Maybe he was, and I'm not disputing that. I disputing what he DID in order to save Chile.

Again, "...this does not make Pinochet's crimes ok. The murder of innocents is never justified whether the crimes are committed by the left or the right."


256 posted on 12/10/2006 1:06:03 PM PST by RightCenter
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To: RightCenter

My point in asking the question is this; while both abovementioned incidents led to a net positive, both incidents are tragic in that death to innocents occurred, many more in the case of the atomic bomb. You criticize Pinochet for his methods and tactics. Are you as critical in your treatment of those who dropped and made the decision to drop the a-bomb? If not, why?

Most people will point to the context, situation, and the sheer amount of deaths that were prevented to justify our atomic actions in WWII, and count me as one of them, by the way. You however, seem only to want to look and judge Pinochet by the some of the more distasteful tactics he employed? Is that fair, is that intellectually honest when juxtaposed with some of your other assessments of history?

What I am getting at, is that tactics aren't the ONLY thing to be considered in evaluating Pinochet’s contribution (and I use that word intentionally) to history.

My 2 cents.


257 posted on 12/10/2006 1:07:15 PM PST by CitadelArmyJag ("Tolerance is the virtue of the man with no convictions" G. K. Chesterton)
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To: My Favorite Headache; All

Pinochet---Libre---Freedom!

258 posted on 12/10/2006 1:07:25 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: paulat

Re: Space Shuttle Discovery Launch Live Thread 8:47 est
From paulat | 12/09/2006 6:12:57 PM PST replied





Why do you have to screw up a thread for kids!

You are a jerk.


259 posted on 12/10/2006 1:08:11 PM PST by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: RightCenter

In war - people get killed.

He saved his nation from the cold grip of Marx...jsut as Lincoln saved his nation...and so many others who have killed in order to save their nations.

read up on history will ya?


260 posted on 12/10/2006 1:09:56 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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