"AK-47: The Weapon That Changed the Face of War," (BookTV; C-Span2 Dec 9 and 10, 2006)

BookTV (C-Span2 weekends) ^ | 12-9-06 | BookTV staff

[VOA]

After Words: Larry Kahaner, author of "AK-47: The Weapon That Changed
the Face of War," interviewed by Peter Singer

On Saturday, December 9 at 9:00 pm EASTERN: repeats Sunday,
December 10 at 6:00 pm and at 9:00 pm on BookTV (C-Span2 weekends)

Description: In his book, "AK-47: The Weapon That Changed the
Face of War," author Larry Kahaner traces the rifle’s role in wars
from Vietnam to Iraq. According to the author, no tool has
spread so much raw power to so many people in so little time
in the history of warfare. Mr. Kahaner discusses the book with
Peter Singer, who directs a project on 21st Century warfare for
the Brookings Institution.

[04-Bravo]

I agree. The MP43/MP44 and the 7.92mm Kurz cartridge are what really started the development of modern infantry rifles.

[rjp2005]

Getting back to the AK, the story of Mikhail Kalishnakov is intriguing. I attribute the success of the rifle to both his natural ability as an engineer and the crunch of war time scarcity/need for the Russians, which tends to cut through the red tape of the usual peace time creative thinking of "we want our new weapon to do everything".

Contrast that with the OICW and other developments here recently - it's annoying that we spend millions of dollars researching and developing rifles that just get cancelled and shelved because they're too overcomplicated and try to do everything from folding your socks to brushing your teeth in between firing 25 different types of rounds!

[indcons]

Personal preference only. I used to own both and liked the SKS better.

[Sender]

I would contrast the development of a way to write reliably in zero gravity during the early space race. The US spent a lot of money developing the Fisher space pen with a pressurized ink cartridge. The Russians used a pencil. Both write in space, one cost a nickel.

[VOA]

If this BookTV turns out to be a stinker...it might be due to a deficiency in
the record as Mikhail Kalishnakov delcined to be interviewed by the author.
(I think that was mentioned in onr of the Amazon.com book reviews)

[300winmag]

what gun is that

SiG STG90, with the civilian version being the 550. The Swiss modified the Kalashnikov design, added a M16-style silent safety, and a lot of spiffy features. They went with the 5.56 NATO round, rather than developing their own unique ammunition.

[ASOC]

Huummmmm

AK-47 = 7.62x39 Bimetal Jacket, 124 Grains, 2330 FPS from 16 in barrel. May be boxer or Berdan primer. Can be had with 122, 123 and 124 gr bullets.


M-16 = 5.56x45 5.56 (223) 55-gr ball. Boxer-primed, reloadable, non-corrosive. Muzzle Velocity: 3259 FPS out of a 20" barrel (3132fps for a 16" barrel, Muzzle Energy: 1289 ft.-lbs Can be had in 62 gr and down to 40 gr bullets.

M14 (308) 7.62x51 M80 Nato Ball boxer primed usually reloadable BTHP 168 gr 2750 fps Can be had with 110 gr to 220 gr bullets. Current USMC sniper round with 168 gr bullet.

6.8 SPC 6.8x 43 115 gr 2640 fps from 18 in barrel Boxer primed can be reloaded. Might be found with 110 to 125 gr bullets.

All these numbers mean nothing, of course, if you don't hit your target....

Just as the 30-06 was necked down to 27 caliber (Win 270) to meet a commerial market, the 6.8 is an attempt to fill a need articulated by soldiers in the field.

[Renegade]

Is the AK 74 the American version of the AK 47 ?

[mamelukesabre]

looks to me like the AK might outperform the 6.8

[300winmag]

Many US Special Forces choose an M-14 or AK over an M-16/M-4.

Special needs require non-standard weapons. But 95% of the American military will do their jobs best with the M-16. I won't turn down a scoped M-14 or G3 if I need to make the long shots, but I'd hate to have to lug it around all day if all the shooting is at 100 meters or under.

On the other hand, my personal plan of action is based on reaching out and touching orcs with aimed fire beyond the spray-and-pray range of their AKs. The short AUG is good to 300 meters with the standard optical sight, while the PS90 is good to about 200 meters, and handles like a fine upland game shotgun. It has the finest snapshooting capabilities of any rifle I've ever handled, and is just absolute fun to shoot (if a bit pricey).

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Is there a difference between the AK ammo and .308 ammo?

Yep, AK ammo is 7.62 X 39 mm and is shorter and has less power than a .308 cartridge, which is 7.62 X 51 mm.

Essentially, an AK/SKS round is for short range assault work (100 hundred yards or less), while the .308 is essentially a reduced 30.06, for medium to long range shooting (200 to 800 yards)). There' s a whole, complicated story as to why the U.S. military dropped the .308 standard for rifles in favor if the 5.56 mm (.223 caliber), but that's for another thread:)

7.62 X 39 mm round

7.62 X 51 mm round (.308)

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Yeah, I have a Chinese-made SKS (Vintage 1965), and it shoots really sweet at a hundred yards. Anything over that though and you might as well be shooting blindfolded.

[Hazcat]

Nothing like a good 30-06 to 'reach out and touch' some one.

[holymoly]

What about a M1 30 carbine?

You may want to give this a spin (shareware):
Shoot! ballistics software

If you try it:

Select "Calculate", then "Compare Loads".

Then choose "Find", and "Ammo (Factory Ammo)".

You can compare up to three different cartridges, at any range. (Display bullet drop, foot-pounds of energy, etc.)

Here's a screen shot, comparing the .30 Carbine, 7.62x39 & .30-30 Winchester (data for nearly every ammo manufacturer included).

[ohioarmedneutrality]

I just picked up an early Christmas present tonight: a WASR 10 Hi-cap(Romanian manufactured AK model) double stack, with two 30-round magazines. Wife says I have to wait until Christmas darn it! Can't wait to give it a try!
I purchased a Swiss K-31 two years ago. Very, very accurate rifle. Uses a weird round -- 7.5 x 55, and this ammo is much more expensive than the AK ammo. Of the two, for straight-up fighting I would take the AK. For sniping, the K-31.

[MarkL]

I would have thought the 30-30 would be more powerful.

What about a M1 30 carbine?

WAY underpowered! In some states, it's not legal for use as a deer cartridge, even though it is a .30 cal cartridge. Ballisticly, it's similar to a .357 magnum.

Mark

[MarkL]

I would have thought the 30-30 would be more powerful.

What about a M1 30 carbine?

WAY underpowered! In some states, it's not legal for use as a deer cartridge, even though it is a .30 cal cartridge. Ballisticly, it's similar to a .357 magnum.

Oops! Accidentally hit the "Post" button. Sorry.

Anyway, one of the biggest limitations of the 30-30 cartridge has been the bullet type, due to the tube magazines on most of the rifles chambered to use them (do you really want a sharp pointed bullet pressing into the primer of the next cartridge in the magazine?) But newer designs have allowed the use of bullets capable of higher velocities, and better downrange performance.

Mark

[Hazcat]

WAY underpowered! In some states, it's not legal for use as a deer cartridge, even though it is a .30 cal cartridge. Ballisticly, it's similar to a .357 magnum.

The thirty makes a fun handgun round.

As to the 30 not allowed for deer. I always wondered why the 30 carbine and the .223 are 'not humane' to kill a 180 lb deer but fine to kill a 180 lb man.

[mamelukesabre]

Thanks.

I didn't realize the AK was that more powerful than a 30carbine. That's really a big difference. I still like the M1 carbine though, i don't care if it is weak.

[mamelukesabre]

I always thought the 30carbine round was frowned on because most people were using it in pistols. That really cuts down on the power. A 30cal pistol is not really enough oomph.