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Will we ever win another war?
Townhall ^ | Wednesday, December 6, 2006 | Ben Shapiro

Posted on 12/06/2006 7:25:53 AM PST by presidio9

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To: pgyanke
No, it's not. Toleration and freedom of religion doesn't mean they have to be elected to our governing bodies.

So, in the name of liberty, you would prevent an American citizens from running for office because of his religion?

I'm sure you see the difficulty.

81 posted on 12/06/2006 8:14:22 AM PST by r9etb
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To: From One - Many
I'm sorry you can't comprehend what I'm asking.....

I can. It's just that what you're asking, is stupid.

82 posted on 12/06/2006 8:14:55 AM PST by r9etb
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To: presidio9
It would seem to me, in a simple common sense way to define the enemy first.

That would require bold leadership, and as much as I admire the President, the "Islam is a religion of peace" deal was a huge mistake.

Also, although this is not easy, it is necessary to identify the enemy within, and stop that appeasement first. This has not been done, and once again, it requires leadership.

Additionally, IMO it is necessary to kill alot of people in a lot of places before they kill you first. We have become too "sensitive" to doing that.

So until such time as we get a clear, constant daily dose of clear leadership, by an uncompromising and bold leader who steps on a lot of toes here and there, we will continue to see a weakened populace.

Just my opinion, but there you go.
83 posted on 12/06/2006 8:15:43 AM PST by alarm rider (Not a democrat, not a republican, not a "libertarian".. A CONSERVATIVE.)
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To: r9etb; From One - Many

read my tag,,,,,maybe that will help! lol


84 posted on 12/06/2006 8:16:52 AM PST by Jeffrey_D. (Seek first to understand, then to be understood)
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To: r9etb
touchy aren't you?
LOL
I'll go away.
85 posted on 12/06/2006 8:18:55 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: r9etb
I see the difficulty but also the necessity when you understand their religion and goals. You can't trust what they say--lying to the infidels (Taqiyah) is holy writ. What you can trust is that moderate or extremist, they have the same goal--to turn Dar Al Harb (the world at war--the world not currently under Islam) into Dar Al Islam (the world that has submitted). Their tactics differ just as a logistician's tactics differ from a tank commander... but they are in the same company for a common purpose.

I would submit to you that we would never have elected a Nazi to Congress (or if we did he would have been rejected by the Congress) during WWII. The problem now is that we don't identify our enemy now as we did then. However, our enemy is having no problems identifying us.

86 posted on 12/06/2006 8:19:21 AM PST by pgyanke (Gay marriage does to real marriage what counterfeit money does to real money. - Hemogoblin)
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To: aristotleman

"We will not win any other wars because Western civilization has grown fat and developed ADD, and a desire to own stuff,"

Ghengis Khan was unstoppable in his day because his army fought as they lived, spartan and mobile, there was no difference between peace/war.

When his sons/grandsons settled in Russia and stopped their expansion they grew fat and happy in their rendition of palaces and lost the will to fight as Ghengis once did.


87 posted on 12/06/2006 8:20:01 AM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: Jeffrey_D.
I'm not going to bother....
We both seem lost in 'no conversation'
LOL
88 posted on 12/06/2006 8:20:07 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: soccer8
I've wondered if Osama Bin Laden would attack the WTC today if he knew that President Bush would do as he as done so far.

A great power like the USA cannot do wholesale death and destruction in response to a terrorist attack...especially one coming from rogue elements and not recognized countries.

And, really...ALL here should know that.

You can be sure that if Iran nukes Israel, Iran will cease to exist as we know it.

89 posted on 12/06/2006 8:20:36 AM PST by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon)
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To: aristotleman
We will not win any other wars because Western civilization has grown fat..

I totally reject this 'we will not win' mantra.

We have decimated alQaeda's leadership, with 60-70 percent killed or captured.

We have NOT had any US embassies, military installations, or homeland attacked in almost six years! (except Iraq, of course)

Despite the daily hair-pulling tantrums and doomsday mongers in the Democrap party and mainstream media, the world is in decent shape, with economies on the upsurge.

WHERE IS OUR DEFEAT??

I submit we are winning big time.

There will always be the dissatisfied thirdworld underclass, complainers all. The MSM LOVES to seek them out with the goal of making it look like THEY are reality.

The only reality I recognize is the might and power of the US military, the US economy, and the good heart of the US people.

Please, let's all get out of this defeatist mentality.

90 posted on 12/06/2006 8:21:21 AM PST by Edit35
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To: MojoWire

I would be happy to see Congress do the right thing and declare war.


91 posted on 12/06/2006 8:22:50 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: presidio9
We could defeat both countries and win the war. Fundamentalist Islam, however, spans the globe.

We can defeat these countries, burn all the mosques and we'll win.

92 posted on 12/06/2006 8:24:01 AM PST by Centurion2000 (If the Romans had nukes, Carthage would still be glowing.)
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To: DCPatriot
A great power like the USA cannot do wholesale death and destruction in response to a terrorist attack...especially one coming from rogue elements and not recognized countries.

This is the thinking the terrorists rely on. The Muslim countries have exported their military function to prevent our effective response against them. We struggle with the shadows while they are the ones blocking the light. In the end, all Muslims have the same goal--world domination. Their tactics differ and they may want their particular flavor of Islam but it will be Islam by any means.

93 posted on 12/06/2006 8:24:21 AM PST by pgyanke (Gay marriage does to real marriage what counterfeit money does to real money. - Hemogoblin)
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To: cripplecreek
We'll win again but only after the enemy wipes out a couple hundred thousand of us first.

You know, I don't even believe that anymore. It is quite possible that even a million casualties on American soil would not sufficiently harden the national will.

In my younger days I used to wonder why Rome fell. How they could have let it happen. Superior force, superior civilization...But force is meaningless without resolve, and civilization is a delicate thing.

And then there's the matter of birth rates and oil wealth. In fact, the only glimmer of hope I have is that something will be found to replace oil, or manufacture it by some wonderful new means. That would take the wind right out of the Islamic sails.

I'm reminded of a passage in a book by novelist Howard Fast..."The Jews, Story of A People."

He wrote, "The iron sword and the horse and chariot were the great equalizers; they catapulted the herdsman into history. Desert-parched, bitter with longing, the foot-bound wanderer of the desert and the badlands was suddenly mobile...On foot they had been helpless; but suddenly they stood in chariots, drove prancing horses, cast iron-shod spears. Now they began to hack and bite at the land which their mythology had assured them was theirs by right of first usage..."

This time, what spurs the barbarian is not a technology, but a fuel. Take away the oil---or its value---and you would take away their motive power. Otherwise they will hack and bite at the land of Israel, and the edges of civilization everywhere.

94 posted on 12/06/2006 8:24:30 AM PST by Graymatter
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To: pgyanke
I see the difficulty but also the necessity when you understand their religion and goals.

Here's the deal, though. Suppose an elected Muslim really does try to institute Sharia law -- which would be explicitly unconstitutional. If our nation is unable to reject such moves on that basis alone, then the Constitutional foundations of the nation are rotten anyway.

The words of the Constitution are meaningless without an informed and responsible citizenry are willing to defend and live by the spirit of the Constitution. It all boils down to our real difficulty, which is that we'd rather "be nice" than do what's right.

A Muslim in Congress poses no real risk unless we're already in trouble.

95 posted on 12/06/2006 8:24:45 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb

"we're already in trouble"


I think you just won the daily double.....LOL


96 posted on 12/06/2006 8:26:27 AM PST by Jeffrey_D. (Seek first to understand, then to be understood)
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To: Centurion2000
We can defeat these countries, burn all the mosques and we'll win.

They tried that in China, with Christianity. It didn't work.

The way to victory is to bring Muslims into modern society ... and to free their women.

97 posted on 12/06/2006 8:27:26 AM PST by r9etb
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To: presidio9

Up to the minute the Saddam statute was toppled, or maybe when Bush landed on that carrier, we were fighting a war- and we easily won.

It's not the Democrats' fault and it's not the media's fault.

The war began in March of 2003, a year and a half later Bush won re-election. He had plenty of time.

You want to know what went wrong, read the FR archives. Reread what supporters expected- were certain- would occur next. Preventing Syria and Iran from arming the terrorists for example. Instead Bush held hands with the Saudis.

Bush did nothing to "win". He sent Karen Hughes to convince the Arabs to like us. There was no real aim or purpose. Where battles were fought we din't go for the kill. Abu Ghraib paralyzed the Administration. We put our stock in elections that were premature and meaningless. We supported Israel's withdrawal from Gaza which showed the terrorists that the West capitulates in the face of terror. Rice sent carrots to Iran and admonitions to Israel.

Only when sensing weakness then did the Democrats and the Media go for the kill. And they got their target in November.


98 posted on 12/06/2006 8:28:25 AM PST by Sabramerican (Says the piano player: America's greatest legacy will be to create a Palestinian State)
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To: r9etb

The situation in Iraq may not winnable. We have a group of bureaucrats sitting a table dictating the rules of engagement and the rules of war which our troops must follow, or there will be hack to pay. The opposing force has no rules..they do what they please. If you see a mad dog in your front yard as a danger to your children, you kill it. Or do want to talk with it.


99 posted on 12/06/2006 8:28:42 AM PST by jwin
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To: DCPatriot
A great power like the USA cannot do wholesale death and destruction in response to a terrorist attack...

I agree with that, but I think we would've fought a tougher (at home and abroad) than we have - IOW much different ROE. Sadr and his group, for example, would have been taken out. Additionally, the Dems, ACLU, UN etc wouldn't have been tolerated when they undermined our troops and foreign and domestic war effort. Also, Airport security etc would not have been frisking Aunt Sadie while letting Abdul pass to avoid 'profiling'.

100 posted on 12/06/2006 8:30:54 AM PST by batter ("Never let the enemy pick the battle site." - Gen. George S. Patton)
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