CNET Editor's body found by Searchers (Update #941)

CNET TV ^ | 12-04-06 | From CNET TV

[sockmonkey]

Wife and two daughters of senior editor James Kim found in Oregon; search is still on for James Kim, who left the car on foot two days ago.

The wife and daughters of missing CNET senior editor James Kim have been found alive and airlifted to a local hospital, authorities announced at a press conference in Merlin, Ore., Monday afternoon.

James Kim left the car on snowshoes two days ago to seek help and has not been found, the official said. The search for him continues.

According to the official speaking at the news conference, the conditions of Kati, Penelope and Sabine are not yet known. More details are expected at a press conference at 5 p.m. PST, which CNET will stream live.

Kati Kim reportedly flagged down a helicopter rented by families of the missing persons.

After searches in Oregon's Curry and Douglas counties, new information on missing CNET senior editor James Kim and his family narrowed the search back to the Bear Camp area in Josephine County, according to reports Monday.

A cell phone tower received a signal from one of the family's cell phones at about 1:30 a.m. on Sunday near Glendale, but officials say the signal is only an indicator the family could have been within 26 miles of Glendale at that time, according to a report in The Oregonian.

[raygun]

AAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiieeeeeeee! You again. I thought I'd paid my thereapist sufficiently to deal with that. Eh. Well. O.k.

Fateful turnoff

They got "lost" at 'Camp Howard'.

Somebody wasn't paying attention. You tell me when the vehicle wasn't capable of "reversing" its path. If nothing else this is a blight on Saab.

[soccermom]

LOL! Good, because I'm no good at that stuff. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how USC managed to lose to UCLA!

[raygun]

I should've shut up right then and there (if not sooner).

D'oh.

[woodbutcher]

I am sure there is a reverse on a Saab.

That is not the point.

I can show you roads on the East Coast in terrain a lot more forgiving than what you find in the Rockies that you will have a hard time backing down in the dark on dry land.

Most vehicles steer very poorly in mud or snow when backing. Much harder than when going forward. I should say that they are more difficult to steer with accuracy.

On a narrow mountain road, in snow, in the dark...a wonderful opportunity for disaster.

And then all of the Monday Morning QB's would be talking about that idiot who slid off the side of the mountain in the dark. Anyone should know better than that.

As a matter of fact, I do recall reading that he could not turn around where he got stuck without opening his door to look back.

Snow on the back window, condensate on the inside, narrow crooked road and you suggest he should have backed out?

I don't think so.


>>>>AAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiieeeeeeee! You again. I thought I'd paid my thereapist sufficiently to deal with that. Eh. Well. O.k.<<<

Good.

I grow on certain people. I went to this charm school where I learned publick relashuns. Stick around.

[woodbutcher]

You mention hunting with dogs.

I like to hunt. What kind of game do you hunt?

Do you hunt in the snow?

What is the game?

Do the dogs hunt it up for you or are they just for companionship?

When you go out in this kind of weather, what do you carry? How many mules does it take? I assume you camp overnight.

Do you go on those trails like I have heard about in Colorado where the trail is about 3' wide on the face of cliffs, where a horse can't even turn around and most people ride mules because you can't push them off the edge whereas horses have been known to panic and fall?

There is a guy in this town who got his name in the paper that way.

Do you have Elk?

[raygun]

AAAAAAiiiiiiieeeeeeeee! EEETs Heem! Heem! Make it go away!

Look. We did the back roads in Colorado trying to find out parcel of the Hartsel Ranch.

We drove a 1973 Caprice. One thing I know for certain: we'd never try going back were we came from.

I looked up Tunnel #5 & 6 on Hwy 6 out of Golden Colorado. No way does the topo-map do justice to my favorit haunt.

I'm exceedingly reluctant to concede that it was impossible to Y or W turn the Saab on Bear Camp Road. Nevertheless, and that notwithstanding, I believe I've already said that once getting on one of those "roads" there's no looking back whatsoever.

As far as the latter part of your post: that little thing should've been going off in his head like bonkers; I think that only goes off with son's in the car (not wives and baby daughters). Do we know who was driving? Suppose he woke up after a hard night of lines, and heard, "Dear, you got us stuck, again. I told you 'bout that. How many time? Did I tell you not to do that? I told you 'bout that."

I don't know. He spent nine days in the car with 'em. That is a HERO in my book. YOU spend NINER days in the car with wife, and two babies: and that's not a hero?

Growel. Grind. Grind. Grind. "Dear, what's that blood leaking out of the corner your mouth?" "Nothing. Believe me, dear, its REALLY nothing." "Well, I believe that you should have that looked at. When we get back to town, I'm going to have you see Doc Johanson. Frieda said he's really the cat's pajamas. Really. I thinkin I'm going to have her set you up an appointment with Margaret who knows the receiptionist really well."

I actually believe that therapy is working. I can FEEL it working...

[oldenuff2no]

I use dogs for many things but when they are with me in the mountains they serve two main functions. When I turn my horses and mules loose to graze they watch them and keep them close to camp. When I have an equine escape artist they fetch him up and bring him back.
When we are riding down the trail the dogs range around me and let me know if anything or anyone is around. In my camps the are just kind of there but that is enough to keep the bears and big cats away from my camp and my livestock.
This is what I raise and work. they were one of the original WWI military working dogs and they are very good working stock dogs.
http://www.puppyshop.com/caninebreeds/blgnshpdog.htm
I've also trained them for tracking, scouting and as search dogs.
I know we all agree on many things about Mr Kim. This guy had courage, and he went to the very end in an attempt to save his family. He gave it everything he had and then some. This is a fact that no one can contest.
Back to the dogs. I've hunted behind many different dogs but it isn't what I prefer. I much prefer the quiet stalk with my bow. It isn't nearly as effective but it's a lot more fun.

[woodbutcher]

Horses and mules.

Sounds like you don't go with just a horse for yourself and one mule.

What do you guys hunt out there? Deer, Elk? I would assume bear.

Some of the fellows I know ride mules because they consider them safer in the mountains.

I have never ridden a mule. And I would add that if my horse can't go there safely, not to worry. I don't want to go there anyway.

I have also heard that a horse you ride in the mountains is safer without shoes. There again, I have no experience. All of the horses I have ever owned had to be shod. Of course, the Mustang has a much better foot that the TB.

[woodbutcher]

>>>>>The driver should've known after the first 300yds when branches were scraping across the top of the vehicle, moreover after passing 4 signs warning of doom, after decending a slope, crossing a stream and then struggling to climb a long and lonely trail that something was afoot.

If they wanted to get out, they could've gotten out before it was too late. Perhaps there was something more nepharious afoot than a mere mistake. Just who was driving the car? Who was asleep, and had anybody been doing any drugs?<<<<<<<

I will be kind to you and not mention the reference to drugs, although I am worried that I am getting to be a pushover in my old age.

As for the rest of that, it really looks to me like the only conclusion that it comes to is that they must have seen something is wrong, so they must have been dumb not to go back. If not back, which way? It is obvious you think that they should not have continued.

Now in this recent post >>>>We drove a 1973 Caprice. One thing I know for certain: we'd never try going back were we came from. <<<

I am really confused.

I am not going to ask you what I should do if I found myself on such a road in a snow storm with the axles dragging the snow, but for the education of all of the nice people on this thread, would you please explain?

If you should not continue and you should not go back.......

[surfer]

It is now being reported that he walked 16 miles not 10 miles. The car was not that close to Bear Lake Lodge. The car was close to 7 miles from Bear Lake Lodge. It was because of a mapping error.

Here is the link to the new article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16107451/

That is some really serious hiking for someone in his condition and situation - just unbelievable.

[Mjaye]

Just saw your link, thanks. What a monumental walk that must have been. 16 miles, most of it in dense woods or heavy brush, is amazing any way you look at it.

[surfer]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/10/FAMILY.TMP

This article will drive you nuts...just amazing...how this could have been handled better. I don't like the idea of slamming SAR but man some of this stuff just seems pathetic.

[raygun]

'73 Caprice thing was a reference to the vehicle I occupied with Dad on the annual vacation we made into the woods. In 1976 we made vacation in the Continental Divide. We endeavored to find that parcel of land that they'd bought that used to be parcel to the Hartsel Ranch. The Hartsel Ranch at one time comprised 1/3 of Colorado proper.

If you remember the Caprice of olden tyme, then you know what 1/3 of a state actually is. Nevertheless, there were times we had to get all the crap out of the Caprice.

I just spoke with Dad. And he remembers the incidents quite well. First because he/Mom lost their shorts in the Hartsel Ranch deal, but secondly, when I mentioned he and I poring over the maps on the picinic tables.

Thing was, he was adamant that we didn't get topo-maps because of our "prospecting"; we got "county" maps after that fiasco.

Immediately I interjected: but if you remember, they STILL weren't good enough.

He didn't say much.

When I interjected that I wanted to go some place (usually some abandoned mine or something) he whipped out the topo-map and slammed me with: "We can't get there from here in enough time."

It was ALWAYS a struggle between me an him.

Look. James had an "adult" im the car with him. If Dad got us into a problem back in '76 in the mountains of Colorado, the two of us would've gotten ourselves out of it. No doubt 'bout it. The road we were on we'd never have pursued in the winter. NEVER.

Its something more than just the branched scraping on the top of the car, its the road itself. We'd have backed up.

And I tell you that way before the incessent "Nya nhe nah niya, do you know where your going? Maybe we should stop to ask for directions." I tell you one thing: I grew up with maps, I know maps, and I die by maps. Maps are who I am. I plot maps, I diagram them, I AM the map-maker.

That's what they teach me in school: maps. They teach me how to map data's existance, processing, disappearance. I'm a map guru. I've been taught how to map logical/physical essence of systems. I've been taught to plot the flow of data, and whom it affects. I've been taught to plot processes and their dependence upon data.

I'm going to run down into a ravine and kill myself.

[Mjaye]

And I tell you that way before the incessent "Nya nhe nah niya, do you know where your going? Maybe we should stop to ask for directions." <<<<<<<<<

Have a problem with females, do you? Didn't get a copy of the "directions" gene in your allotment?

>>>>>>>>>>The road we were on we'd never have pursued in the winter. NEVER.<<<

Have they changed the starting date for winter?? In OR, I believe it hasn't started yet. If you're referring to snowing rather than the season of winter, then they didn't think they were going on a snowy road.

The weather had been in the 90's in the part of CA where I live during Nov., so I guess getting stuck in snow wouldn't have occurred to everyone driving north, though it probably should have (I personally check weather before I go most everywhere, but that's me).

[raygun]

Roger that.

[tubebender]

God Bless you Surfer. I don't know how you do it but you consistently find great relevant links...

[sangfroid10]

I read that they had missed their turn on what would have
been a snowy little highway anyway, en-route to a lodge before
pushing further south.

Instead of turning around, they consulted the map and saw what they thought was a shortcut. Not realizing many of those
small roads aren't plowed, they took that fateful turn.
I'd imagine their car was high centered
or stuck somehow in the deep snow. What a tragedy, but I
hope it's a warning for others planning to travel through
strange areas in bad weather conditions.

Oh, and to others who questioned the wisdom of staying with
the car rather than setting out to seek help.
Rescuers agree that it is far better to stay with the car.
In their case, many people were searching for them - and
of course we know now that the car was spotted.
It's a good idea when planning a trip in winter conditions
to always include an emergency kit. Such items as
lighters (or matches), kitty litter for traction, chains,
warm blankets, flares, and extra sealed munchies can make
all of the difference!

Be Safe All,
Sangfroid10

[paulat]

I was just going to post the sfgate story this morning when I saw your post.

It deserves to be a separate post all on its own because of all of the new information.

Could you do that?

[woodbutcher]

It is amazing that when I have just about decided that this thread has run out of gas, you come up with something like that.

Before I get to the most important point, an observation about the credit card info.

There is really good reason for that under normal circumstances. People will get info on hotel guests and either knock over their home while they are gone or otherwise rip them off.

But I am sure that anyone above a desk clerk would have the authority and the judgment to break the rules in an emergency search and rescue situation. So I expect this was a low level employee afraid to do something he/she was told not to do.

So someone should have gone to the top person.

But that brings up another question. I have always understood that in a life threatening situation, a peace officer can commandeer a car, boat, whatever that is required to save a life or apprehend a dangerous person. That may not be correct and apprehending a computer that you can't figure out how to work (passwords, etc.) may not have been cost effective as relates to time.

And since we don't even know that the information would have helped, we can't say any more about that other than I would fire the person who refused the information under those circumstances.

But the part of this story that really hurts is the part about the guy that saw the car tracks and followed them until his snowmobile hit dry land.

He has to have some sleepless nights for the rest of his life.

Maybe he has a physical condition that does not allow it, but I would have gone back to the house and rounded up something that would go the rest of the way and I would have found out what was at the end of the tracks.

If not able to do that myself, I would have planted myself at the entrance to that road, that is, where it turned off of the main road, and raised a fuss until someone did go in.

Too many times people pick up the phone and make a call and then they are done. Most of the time that works but many times it does not because of the huge number of people, the various layers of command, shift changes and other things that cause information to be lost.

The "I thought you took care of that" causes a lot of mistakes, as well.

So my suggestion is that we should promise ourselves that should we ever be involved in anything like this and we see something that has such great significance that we do more than just make a phone call. If nothing happens after the first call, call again. If nothing happens, call another one of the agencies involved. If nothing happens after you call three times, call the TV station.
We all have "I should have's" on our conscience. I would hate to have this one.
That story is to me the saddest of them all.

[tubebender]

Kati and her two children were found only because a astute pilot saw James foot prints in the snow and followed them to the car. A few years ago a man was lost in the same area and he stayed with his vehicle. He kept a day by day diary and was found 52 days later dead from starvation...