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To: GMMAC

18 posted on 11/30/2006 9:43:20 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76
It was the Roman Empire until Heraclius lost the imperial western half of the Empire reconquered by the Justinian. The Eastern Romans held out due to the Roman Navy's command of the sea and the use of the Greek fire at the Arab fleets besieging Constantinople. The Arabs never did conquer the Empire and its millenium of existence protected the West from the surging tides of Islam. By the time it was overwhelmed by the Ottomans the West was ready to stand against on its own.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

30 posted on 11/30/2006 11:28:02 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: george76; fanfan; Pikamax; Former Proud Canadian; Great Dane; Alberta's Child; headsonpikes; ...
Arguably, Christianity's both most under recognized hero & military victory over the past thousand years were Jan Sobieski & his September 11th 1683 crushing of the Islamists at the gates of Vienna.


Aside from the 9/11 connection, there's a lot of other ironic & other trivia with respect to both the battle & its hero:
While Polish chauvinists would claim this as an almost exclusively "Polish" triumph, Poles - not to slight their highly valued contribution otherwise - actually made up a minority of Sobieski's fighting force; thus making "Vienna 9/11/83" a victory truly belonging to all Christendom.
Ethnic Ukrainians & troops from the Balic area were well represented as were both Scots & Irish forces.
This is the 'Celtic warrior' connection and, yes, it's reported the pipes were appropriately played both during & after the battle.
The significant involvement of the Scots is particularly interesting as it's claimed, a couple of generations later, Jan Sobieski's line intermarried with the legitimate Royal House of Scotland.

Another noteworthy claim is that Sobieski marched his army a full 2 days out of their way while otherwise rushing to lift the siege of Vienna so all could pray before the sacred image of Poland's "Black Madonna" and accordingly afterward credited & dedicated the victory to Our Lady.

At the more mundane level, even the lowly the bagel may well have been invented to honor Sobieski & celebrate the victory. OY !!!

40 posted on 12/01/2006 8:04:53 AM PST by GMMAC (Discover Canada governed by Conservatives: www.CanadianAlly.com)
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To: george76

Excellent yet alarming historical map.


55 posted on 12/02/2006 1:51:24 AM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free!)
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