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Electronic Voting Can't Be Trusted
Sun-Sentinel ^ | 29 November 2006 | Norma Fisher

Posted on 11/29/2006 11:14:22 AM PST by lifelong_republican

"...These machines must go. There is no way to know if one's vote is accurately accounted for..."

(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: diebold; eavesdropping; fraud; nationalsecurity; ohnonotagain; playadifferenttune; representation; spyware; trojanhorse; vote; voter; wishitintocornfield
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To: Joe Brower
This is rich. The same whiny liberals who made such a big deal over the problem with the (democrat designed and administered) paper ballots, and who were instrumental in getting these electronic machines installed, now whine about "the lack of a paper trail". Why?

Misdirection perhaps? They did just win several close elections with these machines.

81 posted on 11/30/2006 3:22:53 PM PST by airborne (MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! Jesus is the reason for the season!!)
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To: lifelong_republican

What do you do for a living? Are you a salesman for printed optically scanned ballots or something?


82 posted on 11/30/2006 3:24:39 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: Doctor Raoul
So are your local ATMs, yet the dipsticks trust them.

Even if an ATM manufacturer wanted to make a dishonest ATM, there wouldn't be a whole lot it could do. If the ATM was programmed to respond to a $20 withdrawal request by withdrawing $100 and paying out $20 (dispensing the other $80 when the programmer punched in a secret code) it wouldn't take very long for people to realize what was up. When someone shows up at the bank with a receipt that says they withdrew $20 and a bank statement that says they withdrew $100, the fraud will be discovered.

Many existing voting machine designs have zero protection against insider fraud. To be sure, it's impossible to provide much protection if all insiders are dishonest, but a well-designed system can be constructed so that even one honest person will provide a substantial check against fraud. Unfortunately, none of the major vendors seem interested in doing so.

83 posted on 11/30/2006 4:05:04 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: itsahoot
Secret ballot my rear, that is why we have campaign rallies.

Secret ballot is the only way to prevent vote buying and vote coersion. A person may have Kerry bumper stickers on his car, and a Kerry sign on his laws, but that doesn't mean that he can't decide at the moment of truth that he just can't support the guy. The decision is his alone--even if all his relatives and coworkers are Democrats, they cannot pressure him.

84 posted on 11/30/2006 4:07:46 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: RNO1
The State has checked the machines and did not find a problem...

To really check a machine, it must be possible to ensure that all code and parameters used by the machine are the "official" versions, and that they are not altered during voting. To have any meaningful security, it must be possible to write-protect the media, read it in its entirety without running any code therefrom, conduct the election with the media still write-protected, and then read it out again (still write-protected).

Not difficult to design a machine that way, but does anyone?

85 posted on 11/30/2006 4:15:54 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: lifelong_republican
Undervote rates in my small rural county soard from 700-800 before the electronics to 4,000-5,000 immediately after the electronics were installed.

How do you know the under vote rate wasn't undercounted in the past and a better count is available when its electronic?

86 posted on 11/30/2006 4:43:01 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: Raycpa

I would assume it should be relatively easy to run a diagnostic program by a third party developer both before and during an election on a spot basis to insure against tampering that could certify the machines working as expected.


87 posted on 11/30/2006 4:45:55 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: supercat
Secret ballot is the only way to prevent vote buying and vote coersion.

Then we are forever doomed to vote fraud.

88 posted on 11/30/2006 5:07:55 PM PST by itsahoot (If the GOP does not do something about immigration, immigration will do something about the GOP)
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To: itsahoot
Then we are forever doomed to vote fraud.

Unless one provides methods to ensure that the people casting ballots are who they say they are, and provides sufficient punishment to discourage ineligible people from voting.

89 posted on 11/30/2006 5:39:28 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: Raycpa
I would assume it should be relatively easy to run a diagnostic program by a third party developer both before and during an election on a spot basis to insure against tampering that could certify the machines working as expected.

How do you ensure that the machine is actually running the software it's supposed to be? Even years ago, many boot sector viruses would patch the "sector read" routine so that a request to read the boot sector would return a copy of the legitimate one, and such games continue with things like the XCP rootkit distributed by Sony. If hardware isn't set up to prevent stealthing, it may be very difficult to ensure that machines aren't running fake software.

90 posted on 11/30/2006 5:44:09 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: supercat
How do you ensure that the machine is actually running the software it's supposed to be?

In auditing we call it "black box" test. You run data through and see that the results are what is expected.

In this case a program could be created that mimic's voting and runs data through that should yield a predetermined result. This and other diagnostics could be designed, tested and reported on to insure the machine is operating properly.

91 posted on 11/30/2006 6:03:43 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: Raycpa
In auditing we call it "black box" test. You run data through and see that the results are what is expected.

Black box testing for software cannot detect backdoors which the author has deliberately concealed from such testing. Anyone who thinks that such testing protects against insider attacks is at best naive.

92 posted on 11/30/2006 6:07:35 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: supercat

How would someone gain access to an isolated machine in order to access the backdoor?


93 posted on 11/30/2006 6:56:35 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: Raycpa
How would someone gain access to an isolated machine in order to access the backdoor?

Diebold's machines have cheap locks for which keys are readily available (I don't know which particular cheap lock they use, but for many types of cheap locks there are only a few dozen different keys; some are packaged such that a case of locks will contain one of each different key). In many election offices, it would not be difficult for a member of the party in power to get access to the machines prior to the election.

Unless all hard drives and flash are removed from the machines and read out without running code from them prior to the machines' being used for elections, it will be difficult to detect well-designed stealth cheat-ware. I don't think the machines are set up to facilitate such verification, and doubt anybody does it.

94 posted on 11/30/2006 7:02:16 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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Once the cheatware is installed, it can be set up to enable trickery by whatever means one wants. If one knows that one will want to rig an election on April 27, one can create cheatware so that it will have no visible effects unless or until someone casts a ballot with the specific pattern A-B-B-A-B-A-B-A-A-A-B, after which 50% of votes will be given to the Purple Party candidates in any races where they're running. Whether triggered or not, the cheatware will include a self-repair function so that any time the system is active following the end of that election it will, at the first opportunity, replace itself with a stashed-away copy of the real code.

If done well, such a hack would be undetectable after the fact except by doing magnetic-domain analysis on the system's hard drive or by examining the hard drive of a compromised system before the cheatware had an opportunity to remove itself.

95 posted on 11/30/2006 7:06:51 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: wideawake

If you don't realize that the electronics are unreliable, vulnerable, needlessly complex, exhorbitantly expensive, inconvenient for the voters, unauditable, and, as the General Accounting Office of the United Stats Congress has noted in an official report, unsuitable for use in elections, you need to consider the subject more carefully. If you imagine that previous election manipulations would justify additional ones, or even those which are significantly worse, you aren't doing your duty as a citizen. Your haste in launching invective toward others whom you don't really know seems paranoid, especially when you substitute it for understanding of the issue being discussed. Should you really fear and despise so many Americans just because you don't agree with them even on totally unrelated issues? Would you insist that the earth must be flat in the event that anyone you could imagine would be from a faction separate from your own says it is spherical?


96 posted on 11/30/2006 7:57:11 PM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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To: lifelong_republican

Just flick a few bits.. And puff and know ones the wiser.

An old uncle Joe Stalin dream come true.

-The more complicated the plumbing, The easier it is to stop up the pipes.-
Scotty - 2184


97 posted on 12/01/2006 1:44:26 AM PST by quietolong
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To: lifelong_republican
electronics are unreliable

As is paper.

vulnerable

as is paper

needlessly complex

To a computing-illiterate moron perhaps.

exhorbitantly expensive

They're cheaper.

inconvenient for the voters

Inconevenient only to imbeciles - convenient for people who know what a PC is.

unauditable

LOL! They're more auditable than paper.

as the General Accounting Office of the United Stats Congress has noted in an official report, unsuitable for use in elections

You're going to have to cite this preposterous claim.

Would you insist that the earth must be flat in the event that anyone you could imagine would be from a faction separate from your own says it is spherical?

You've lost all coherence - which was a shaky area for you from the get-go.

98 posted on 12/01/2006 6:02:47 AM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

LOL
Can you keep a Straight face spreading BS like that?
You work for one of these Co.?


99 posted on 12/02/2006 12:53:58 AM PST by quietolong
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To: Raycpa
Thank you for your interesting point!

(I had reported that the undervote rate went from 700-800 to 4,000-5,000 with the electronics.}

You said:

"How do you know the under vote rate wasn't undercounted in the past and a better count is available when its electronic?"

The way this is known is that, historically, the undervote rate ranges from 1-3%. The paperless electronic system to which I refer caused undervote rates to soar to as high as 70-80%.

100 posted on 12/02/2006 5:12:49 AM PST by lifelong_republican (Valid Elections: The Idea of America)
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