Posted on 11/24/2006 6:46:08 PM PST by kristinn
If you studied the war as a whole and not just those three examples, you'd know I was right.
But let me make a simpler argument that you might understand, The Germans carpet bombed London instead of going after RAF air fields. We went after the German factories and resources instead of their cities.
With me so far, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets not population targets, even Tokyo which was firebombed extensively was bombed because of the Factories there, Kyoto a densely populated former capitol of Japan and the center of Japanese culture with almost no military industries was spared.
Dresden was bombed for a simple reason it was a major rail hub through which the Germans were going to send 42 divisions to halt the Soviet advance, the utter destruction of Dresden saved lives by preventing the Soviets from being stopped by the German army.
In fact the only operationally successful Carpet Bombing to date was the original one, oddly enough called "Operation Cobra", the breakout from Normandy attacked through a corridor that had been Carpet Bombed through the German lines, and even in the Carpet Bombing of Operation Cobra, French cities were not attacked the way the term Carpet Bombing has been misused as of late.
I'm praying hard, T.......HARD.
I bet you are.
"both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets not population targets, even Tokyo which was firebombed extensively was bombed because of the Factories there,"
This is, quite simply, untrue.
SandRat keeps me up with The Truth.
Go to your comments page, or the main page and look at the very bottom of the side bar.
Gee, that's still too complicated for me. Make it simple: were our "tactical and strategic objectives" in Iraq to be in a guerilla war taking 50 KIA / 500 WIA per month with thousands of Iraqis killed per month? There is no trend downwards in the numbers.
Do you see a victory in the current strategy? Are you content with the current results? Please don't roll out the standard "we're training xxxxx million Iraqi army recruits" stuff. We both know that ain't working.
Last night I posted my support for Kristinn's comments and for the war of which several of my relatives have served and still serving.
Living in San Diego where tens of thousands of Marines and Navy are based, I have the honor to speak to many who have served in the war and will be going back, some for their 4th tour.
On this thread there are DU trolls, libertarian & constitutional party bots who are against the war.
Those who have no knowledge of history and just go by their emotions.
True believers on both sides, my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts.
Those who find Wal Mart a cultural event and don't understand what people in large cities put up with.
In other words, there is a mixed bag here.
For those on this thread who can't contribute in an intellectual discussion on either side need to back off.
When a thread turns into a food fight nothing is gained.
If you don't want to support our troops or the war then don't get in a tiff and bash those who do.
No one is telling you to join up a serve so sit back and watch your football game.
It is only a matter of time when we will have to fight them here if we don't take care of business over there.
Until then, either support or just chill.
Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima were both major Japanese Naval ports and The Yamato sailed from Hiroshima on the last Japanese Major naval operation "Ten-ichi-go" a suicide mission to beach the Yamato on the shores of Okinawa.
When will we know that we've won the war in Iraq?
PING
Apparently it is too complicated for you, but let me explain to you how you kill guerillas, you give them the space and a place to hold and defend where you know you can kill them.
During this conflict our forces have done this repeatedly, you know the names of the battles, the "insurgents" were allowed to build a base and our forces went in and crushed them. Now you might not see the purpose of attacking the same spot over and over with the same results(more dead insurgents then our losses), but the idea is sound you bait a trap, and you wait for the rats to move in and then spring the trap.
What you are not getting and not seeing is the losses on the other side, why? because it doesn't help those that want to cut and run to admit we are winning every time we engage the enemy.
God bless your son and protect him and bring him home safely to all those who love him. I pray for our military every night. They are never far from my thoughts.
I do. We all should listen to each other. Some people support President Bush not because he says to, but because they believe he is right. Or, to put it another way, President Bush agrees with them.
The war in Iraq, in my opinion, was the correct thing to do. But then again, I've thought so since the early '90's, as soon as Saddam started violating the cease fire, and we (mostly USAF) got the duty to try and contain him out of bases in Saudi, which then led to Al Qeada (or at least one aspect of it) taking us on (Khobar Towers). I lost some good friends there. But we did nothing to avenge them until 2001. So I give Dubya some credit for that. But since then, no matter which way we turned, we haven't had good options.
So lets take a longer look at history. If we did nothing in 2003, and Saddam did get the sanctions lifted, and then went on to supply Al Qeada with WMD, what then? Our course of action has surely prevented that. Did Roosevelt do the right thing by cutting off Imperial Japan's oil and iron? In their distorted view, this was the causi belli they went to war with us over. A war that cost millions of lives.
Now we are in this war. Is it a war? Not like WWII. It IS terrorism and guerilla warfare against our troops. We can win this. Surely we can. If we can't, we might as well lose all hope against what may come later. I don't want to see another attack on our countrymen, especially civilians, because some Mullah thinks we're weaklings, and that they had the power to wear us out in Iraq. Most of this fight now comes down to proving to them we're in it for the long haul.
I have no answers beyond that. Stay the course is the only way to prevent more damage, imho. If others can think of a better way, one that has a realistic chance of being carried out (in this democratic republic of ours that sees considerable power given to those opposed to any fighting in the first place--meaning the left branch of the democrat party and a large percentage of the DBM), I'm all ears.
We will know that we lost when we stop fighting.
We will know that we won when they stop fighting.
Great post, SoCal.
Bottom line, right here. This is what it's all about.
dittos and thanks
Check the results now. I do not agree with the cut and runners, but three of them have shown intellectual honesty and been counted. That is one of the great things about FR. It used to be that we would engage in lively (even heated) debate, and walk away from such with a modicum of respect for each other. Without digressing to personal attacks and name calling. There even used to be conservative Democrats that would post some very intellectually stimulating threads and comments. Even the Libertarians and Constitution Party folks have moved to other forums and blogs, because of a few specific individuals and groups here. Ah, the good old days.
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