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To: JCEccles
For starters:

John 3:5-7, 14-16a, 36:

"Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit...the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again...Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life...whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life...Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 6:28-29,47:

"What must we do to do the works God requires?" "Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent...I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life."

John 17:3:

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

1 John 5:11-13:

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves--it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast."

What is noteworthy of above passages in light of Mormon beliefs?

(1)The Book of Mormon talks about the need to be born again, but it's not much emphasized by Mormon authorities and Mormons themselves.

(2)Note that John 3:36, 6:47, 1 John 5:11-13 all talk about eternal life as a present tense ("has eternal life")--not future tense. Why? Because, as John 17:3 shows, "eternal life" is not a future reward. Rather, it's a present relationship. It's knowing "the only true God, and Jesus Christ." It's not knowing about a God. It's knowing Him. It's not simply knowing some partially true things and many false things about Him. It's knowing the only true God, and Jesus Christ.

(3) Ephesians 2:8-9 is exactly the opposite of 2 Nephi in Book of Mormon...that we're saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO (now who can ever say they've done "all they can do?" and mean it?)

(4) Deceased LDS apostle Bruce McConkie, author of "Mormon Doctrine," advised BYU students in a 1973 devotion not to seek a special relationship with Jesus Christ. This goes opposite John 17:3 as noted above. Also the Nephite disciples prayed directly to Jesus. But LDS general authorities tell folks not to pray directly to Him, hence encumbering a personal relationship with Him.

385 posted on 11/20/2006 5:10:48 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

It took you awhile. You are very wordy on a wonderfully simple matter. Why did you not simply cite 1 John 4:2?


390 posted on 11/20/2006 5:16:53 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: Colofornian
Deceased LDS apostle Bruce McConkie, author of "Mormon Doctrine," advised BYU students in a 1973 devotion not to seek a special relationship with Jesus Christ.

Yay for out of context. In fact your scripture quotes are out of context as well or incomplete.

I know the speech of which you speak. It was actually in 1982. You leave a lot out just by saying he advised against a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Strangely enough he also talked about his speech not being an "end to controversy or to the spread of false views and doctrines."

Yea that's right, dead guy talking about something you are doing today. Freaky isn't it...

425 posted on 11/20/2006 6:28:28 PM PST by Domandred
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