Posted on 11/20/2006 8:24:45 AM PST by areafiftyone
Mitt Romney (R) begins the 2008 campaign season in fourth place among those seeking the GOP Presidential nomination, trailing Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Condoleezza Rice. While many Republican insiders believe the Massachusetts Governor could become an attractive candidate to the party's social conservatives, a Rasmussen Reports survey finds that Romney's faith may initially be more of a hindrance than a help.
Forty-three percent (43%) of American voters say they would never even consider voting for a Mormon Presidential candidate. Only 38% say they would consider casting such a vote while 19% are not sure. Half (53%) of all Evangelical Christians say that they would not consider voting for a Mormon candidate.
Overall, 29% of Likely Voters have a favorable opinion of Romney while 30% hold an unfavorable view. Most of those opinions are less than firmly held. Ten percent (10%) hold a very favorable opinion while 11% have a very unfavorable assessment. Among the 41% with no opinion of Romney, just 27% say they would consider voting for a Mormon.
It is possible, of course, that these perceptions might change as Romney becomes better known and his faith is considered in the context of his campaign. Currently, just 19% of Likely Voters are able to identify Romney as the Mormon candidate from a list of six potential Presidential candidates.
The response to a theoretical Mormon candidate is far less negative than the response to a Muslim candidate or an atheist. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Likely Voters say they would never consider voting for a Muslim Presidential candidate. Sixty percent (60%) say the same about an atheist.
The Rasmussen Reports survey found that 35% say that a candidate's faith and religious beliefs are very important in their voting decision. Another 27% say faith and religious beliefs are somewhat important. Ninety-two percent (92%) of Evangelical Christian voters consider a candidate's faith and beliefs important.
On the partisan front, 78% of Republicans say that a candidate's faith is an important consideration, a view shared by 55% of Democrats. However, there is also a significant divide on this topic within the Democratic Party. Among minority Democrats, 71% consider faith and religious beliefs an important consideration for voting. Just 44% of white Democrats agree.
The national telephone survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted by Rasmussen Reports November 16-17, 2006. The margin of sampling error for the survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.
Nice try.
I never said they believed it should be a forced thing.
Mormons don't baptize the dead. They baptize dead people by proxy.
they . . . which are baptized for the dead--third person; a class distinct from that in which the apostle places himself, "we" (1Co_15:30); first person. ALFORD thinks there is an allusion to a practice at Corinth of baptizing a living person in behalf of a friend who died unbaptized; thus Paul, without giving the least sanction to the practice, uses an ad hominem argument from it against its practicers, some of whom, though using it, denied the resurrection: "What account can they give of their practice; why are they at the trouble of it, if the dead rise not?" [So Jesus used an ad hominem argument, Mat_12:27]. But if so, it is strange there is no direct censure of it. Some Marcionites adopted the practice at a later period, probably from taking this passage, as ALFORD does; but, generally, it was unknown in the Church. BENGEL translates, "over (immediately upon) the dead," that is, who will be gathered to the dead immediately after baptism. Compare Job_17:1, "the graves are ready for me." The price they get for their trouble is, that they should be gathered to the dead for ever (1Co_15:13, 1Co_15:16). Many in the ancient Church put off baptism till near death. This seems the better view; though there may have been some rites of symbolical baptism at Corinth, now unknown, perhaps grounded on Jesus' words (Mat_20:22-23), which Paul here alludes to. The best punctuation is, "If the dead rise not at all, why are they then baptized for them" (so the oldest manuscripts read the last words, instead of "for the dead")?
Alright.
I was wrong.
Regarding baptism of the dead, I apologize.
It is mentioned in Scripture. I don't understand it, but it is mentioned.
I take back any criticism based on that point.
So Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are acceptable because they are Baptists? Is that your point? Or are you going to judge them as not being Christian either?
John 3:5-7, 14-16a, 36:
"Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit...the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again...Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life...whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life...Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 6:28-29,47:
"What must we do to do the works God requires?" "Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent...I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life."
John 17:3:
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
1 John 5:11-13:
"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."
Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves--it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast."
What is noteworthy of above passages in light of Mormon beliefs?
(1)The Book of Mormon talks about the need to be born again, but it's not much emphasized by Mormon authorities and Mormons themselves.
(2)Note that John 3:36, 6:47, 1 John 5:11-13 all talk about eternal life as a present tense ("has eternal life")--not future tense. Why? Because, as John 17:3 shows, "eternal life" is not a future reward. Rather, it's a present relationship. It's knowing "the only true God, and Jesus Christ." It's not knowing about a God. It's knowing Him. It's not simply knowing some partially true things and many false things about Him. It's knowing the only true God, and Jesus Christ.
(3) Ephesians 2:8-9 is exactly the opposite of 2 Nephi in Book of Mormon...that we're saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO (now who can ever say they've done "all they can do?" and mean it?)
(4) Deceased LDS apostle Bruce McConkie, author of "Mormon Doctrine," advised BYU students in a 1973 devotion not to seek a special relationship with Jesus Christ. This goes opposite John 17:3 as noted above. Also the Nephite disciples prayed directly to Jesus. But LDS general authorities tell folks not to pray directly to Him, hence encumbering a personal relationship with Him.
I wouldn't vote for any governor of the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts. Romney likes socialized medicine, as evidenced by the MA health law forcing everyone there to buy medical insurance, or be surcharged on their state taxes.
thanks for the information.
I am completely retracting my criticism of the point and apologize.
I clearly read wrong.
Do Mormons believe that they can become Gods?
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
(Gen 3:4-5)
I agree...
It took you awhile. You are very wordy on a wonderfully simple matter. Why did you not simply cite 1 John 4:2?
To be honest I would have a mormon than a fake Christian...
I don't know them.
As I already stated, I would vote for Romney if he is who runs in 2008.
I never suggested that if you were a Christian you would be a good ruler.
I was only expressing history. Not suggesting I would not vote for the guy based on his religion.
Do I disagree with his faith? Yes, but I would still vote for him.
There are two kinds of people in this: Those who teach to pay only to the Father; and those who teach to pray to God as Father God as Son in the Holy Spirit. Mormons are the first, failing the Book of Mormon injunction and precedent found in 3 Nephi 19:17-26:
"v. 18: "and they did pray unto Jesus." v. 24: "disciples...did still continue, without ceasing to pray him." v. 25: "Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him." v. 26: "And jesus said unto them: pray on, nevertheless, they did not cease to pray."
Some folks have ceased to pray to Jesus.
This Catholic doesn't trust Romney's judgment, based on his choice of Mormonism, and I feel that my position is not intolerant. I would hope that's what's at the bottom of other people's negative views of his potential. I just do not trust the man. (I live in Massachusetts.)
While I might vote for a Mormon candidate, I'd never vote for an anti-gun, Mormon candidate.
If it is a bad choice based on poor judgment, then surely it has yielded bad fruit in his personal life.
What evidence do you have that Mitt Romney has produced bad fruit in his life?
You're wise. I don't necessarily agree with your characterization of his position on gun control, but at least you're judging a substantive political issue.
"Mitt Romney was born March 12, 1947 in Detroit, Michigan and is the son of former Michigan governor and presidential candidate George W. Romney. His mother Lenore Romney ran unsuccessfully for US Senate as a Republican from Michigan. He has three siblings: Lynn, Jane, and G. Scott. Romney has been married to his wife, Ann Romney, since 1969. They have five sons (Tagg, Matt, Josh, Ben and Craig) and nine grandchildren. Ann Romney was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1998.
"Romney graduated from the Cranbrook School in Bloomfield Hills (now Cranbrook Kingswood School). He met his future wife, Ann Davies (b. 1949), when she was at the Kingswood School.
"After attending Stanford University for two quarters, Romney served for 30 months as a missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in France. Upon returning from France he transferred universities and subsequently received his B.A. with Highest Honors and as valedictorian from Brigham Young University in 1971. In 1975, Romney was awarded an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School and was named a Baker Scholar. In 1975 he also received his J.D. cum laude from Harvard Law School. He is also an Eagle Scout.
"After graduation from Harvard Business School, Romney went to work for the Boston Consulting Group, where he had been a summer intern in 1974. At BCG Romney worked with recent MIT graduate and future Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"From 1978 to 1984, Romney was a Vice President of Bain & Company, Inc., a Boston-based management consulting firm. Later, as the company's CEO, he led it through a highly successful turnaround[6]. Today, Bain & Company has 33 offices in 21 countries and 2,400 consultants.
"In 1984, Romney co-founded Bain Capital, one of the nation's most successful private equity investment firms. Among the first companies it invested in was Staples, an office-supply store. In 1986 Staples, Inc., had one store. Today it has nearly 1,700. Bain Capital founded, acquired or invested in hundreds of companies including Bright Horizons Family Solutions, Brookstone, Domino's, Sealy and The Sports Authority."
There ya go. Using a prooftext that doesn't say what you say it means. Where does 1 John 4:2 say, "This is how you recognize a Christian?" No. It says "This is how you recognize the Spirit of God." The context is not at all about testing people, and for you to say it is constitutes an outright distortion. Read 1 John 4:1: "do not believe every SPIRIT," and goes on to advise to "test the spirits to see if they are from God."
If you still don't know realize what John is talking about, then I advise you to look at the passage to Timothy where Paul talks about "the doctrine of demons." (Yes, spirits have their counterfeit gospel & counterfeit doctrines)
As for why this passage is in 1 John, it's real simple. Every NT epistle was both eternal truth but was also written for a specific, local situation. Now what was John the disciple dealing with in churches at the time he wrote 1 John? Answer? Gnosticism, which taught that Jesus did not come in the flesh.
The one, eternal gospel was always customized to some degree in these epistles. Not every epistle addressed sexual immorality, for instance. But certainly the Corinthians needed to be reminded that the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus says outright that a lot of folks who believe the proper things aren't going to make it to the kingdom. (See Matthew 25 for instance). He adds in the previous chapter, "but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." (Matt 24:13). That, and Hebrews 6, implies that many people who believe 1 John 4:2 may not make it into His kingdom.
Bottom line: Do you or do you not believe that 2 Cor 11:4 teaches there are different Jesuses, different spirits, different gospels?: "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted..."
"Mitt Romney was born March 12, 1947 in Detroit, Michigan and is the son of former Michigan governor and presidential candidate George W. Romney. His mother Lenore Romney ran unsuccessfully for US Senate as a Republican from Michigan. He has three siblings: Lynn, Jane, and G. Scott. Romney has been married to his wife, Ann Romney, since 1969. They have five sons (Tagg, Matt, Josh, Ben and Craig) and nine grandchildren. Ann Romney was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1998.
"Romney graduated from the Cranbrook School in Bloomfield Hills (now Cranbrook Kingswood School). He met his future wife, Ann Davies (b. 1949), when she was at the Kingswood School.
"After attending Stanford University for two quarters, Romney served for 30 months as a missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in France. Upon returning from France he transferred universities and subsequently received his B.A. with Highest Honors and as valedictorian from Brigham Young University in 1971. In 1975, Romney was awarded an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School and was named a Baker Scholar. In 1975 he also received his J.D. cum laude from Harvard Law School. He is also an Eagle Scout.
"After graduation from Harvard Business School, Romney went to work for the Boston Consulting Group, where he had been a summer intern in 1974. At BCG Romney worked with recent MIT graduate and future Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"From 1978 to 1984, Romney was a Vice President of Bain & Company, Inc., a Boston-based management consulting firm. Later, as the company's CEO, he led it through a highly successful turnaround[6]. Today, Bain & Company has 33 offices in 21 countries and 2,400 consultants.
"In 1984, Romney co-founded Bain Capital, one of the nation's most successful private equity investment firms. Among the first companies it invested in was Staples, an office-supply store. In 1986 Staples, Inc., had one store. Today it has nearly 1,700. Bain Capital founded, acquired or invested in hundreds of companies including Bright Horizons Family Solutions, Brookstone, Domino's, Sealy and The Sports Authority."
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.