Posted on 11/19/2006 4:43:19 PM PST by Reagan Man
That's good news if it turns out to be true. But I suspect the reason for backing off now has more to do with not wanting to give Bush the credit for an amnesty, they'd much rather prefer to wait until Hillary's in to pull off their scam.
The leftist press would believably paint it as akin to a holocaust, and whatever party wrote the laws would be in deep caca.
1. Half the problem are libertarians, neoconservatives, and the country clubbers using the same language and giving the left cover.
2. The left will scream about anything we do.
Bush wants amnesty, the Democrats are supporting welfare for illegals. We still lose!
Therefore, it ain't going to happen nationwide. Get over it, and spend your energy encuraging assimilation. This country was the melting pot of the world for centuries, and I'm amazed that conservatives have surrendered to the idea that assimilation is now impossible.
Assimilation did not just occur.
It happened because every other generation we restricted immigration. We also created an education system to promote assimilation.
Today we have an education system promoting ethnic seperatism and you want to increase the number of people comming in? Shall we be forced to allow in another 50 million in the next 25 years?
That is precisely the problem. I grew up in New York City, and the entire education system there, up until the 1970s, was directed at assimilation - and it worked. It wasn't painless and seamless, but people ended up with enough in common to understand each other and their kids had enough background to get ahead in the US.
I believe Bush's plan called for programs to encourage assimilation, but that's pretty useless at the federal level. I think folks should get out there and work on their local school boards. Threaten to cut off the money unless they stop the multi-cult trash and start teaching things like English, real American history, etc., to everyone, regardless of where they or their parents were born. I think you'd be surprised by how many immigrants would join you. They came here to get ahead, not be trapped in a Dem immigrant ghetto.
The 1960's radicals had a different perspective. For them everything was about race class and gender. Having no experience in actual poverty they had no respect for education as a tool for betterment. Rather pedagogy was ideology. Therefor they had no problem breaking things apart along racial lines and telling kids to be "authentically" ignorant. It was all about immediate radicallization.
This was Old Left vs New Left and in New York, Jew vs Black.
This was not somethings I hold as a role model.
Many were themselves first or second generation Jewish or Irish Americans for whom a proper education was the ticket out of a slum.
What's wrong with that? Isn't that what we want people to do? Get an education and get ahead?
What an excellent point! We could ask Dane why he's so FOR a guest worker program when President Bush pushes it and so AGAINST Pelosi doing the exact same thing, but, as you will see by the lack of response to your post, Dane doesn't answer questions....unless of course, it's with another question.
Exactly! That is why so many of us are so upset about Mexico over running America. It SHOULD be a melting pot, with a variety of immigrants as in the past (Africa, China, Europe). What the heck makes Mexico think they have a right to come here without following the same rules everyone else in the world follows? That is a question I've often asked of those supporting your side of the argument. I have yet to get an answer so why don't you tell me? Why should Mexico be allowed to just walk over the border when the rest of the decent world has millions of people who want to come here as well and are doing the right thing by coming legally? Or do you just believe in totally open immigration, no background checks and the entire world should send all their poor here? If it's good for Mexico then it should be good for the rest of the world as well?
And its a bold face lie.
But apparently not enought to reward Republicans who passed the law to build it.
That doesn't mean Americans support amnesty. They don't!
And the Republicans didn't give them amnesty. So how come the voters didn't re-elect them?
Were the people just too stupid to vote for what you claim they wanted? Or is this situation a bit more complex than you make it out to be?
When did I say I wanted 1986 all over again? You're assuming way too much.
People assume it's an easy thing to get illegals to go back to mexico, but an impossible thing to pursuade them to speak english. It's true that they won't assimilate without pursuasion, but instead of wasting your time trying to get the new Democratic Congress to pass draconian laws to send mexicans home (LOL, dream on), why aren't you spending your time at the local level getting mexicans into english class?
Yeah, they're laughing all the way to Congress. They like the status quo. More illegals every year, voting for more democrats.
Bush tried to normalize the situation and get it under control, but conservatives spit in his face and stayed home on election day.
The Dems have got to love it. They don't call Republicans the "stupid party" for nothing.
Amnesty? AMNESTY! What is it about *illegal* don't you understand? They must go now!
In this period, we would create a targeted guest worker program.
No. Enforcement now, and we'll talk about other things later. That's what J.D. was insisting on, and he's right.
Assimilation did not just occur. [/sarcasm] It happened because every other generation we restricted immigration.
There were virtually no limits on immigration 100 years ago. At the time there was a larger percentage of the population born abroad than now. We assimilated them because we 1) welcomed them to America. And 2) insisted they join the American culture and learn English.
Telling a whole class of people that they are not welcome forces them into ethnic ghettos where they will never assimilate. It's not an accident that immigrants *stopped* assimilating when we started seriously limiting immigration at the unions behest 75 years ago. You have it exactly backward.
Today we have an education system promoting ethnic seperatism
Yes. So why are you wasting time trying to keep illegals out (which won't happen), when you could be spending your time fighting the education establishment and getting rid of multiculturalism? Some educrats are beginning to get the picture. Help them see the light.
Shall we be forced to allow in another 50 million in the next 25 years?
You have (had) a choice. Let them in under a legal framework. Or let them in the way the Democrats prefer, as an underclass they can exploit. The "anti-illegal" conservatives stupidly blocked Bush from creating that legal framework when he had the chance, and now they're going to have to continue to live under the Democrats system of anarchy on the border, and disintegrating American culture. The Stupid Party strikes again.
I bet Dane remembers all the way back to last year, when there were 50 or 100 different proposals offered up. Since then conservatives have demigoged all those proposals into one word ... "amnesty", which is now an entirely meaningless word, because it can mean anything.
So maybe Dane believes as I do that there were good "amnesty" proposals, and bad "amnesty" proposals, and doesn't want the bad proposal Pelosi would surely offer over what the Republican Congress could have passed if it had any brains.
Truth has a way of doing that.
Mexico is not coming here. It's citizens are. They know they don't have a right to be here, which is why they hide in their barrios instead of assimilating in the greater American culture.
The major issues in the election go beyond just immigration. The #1 issue for Democrats and many Independents was the ongoing battle for Iraq. For conservatives the major issues were excessive spending, expansion of the welfare state bureaucracy and immigration. Basic competence in leadesrhip also played a key factor for conservatives. Not enough conservative Republicans were convinced the GOP would do anything about the issues that mattered to them. So they stayed home. The GOP simply didn't get a big enough turnout of voters to off set the growing opposition to Iraq. Conservatives cost the GOP control of Congress, and rightfully so.
There are Guest Worker programs running today. It appears noone wants to use them, it's more prosperous doing it ILLEGALLY.
That looks like a wonderful business model. Mexicans are paying a thousand or more dollars to coyotees to get them here illegally now. All you've got to do is put out your shingle in TJ and bring as many across with full papers as you can handle. You should be rich. I'll expect to see your name on the Forbes list of millionares soon.
I reckon you'll have a while to wait considering I don't help people cross the border ILLEGALLY. I can't quite figure out how you got here. Blackbird.
They're hardly hiding. They are marching in the streets. And Mexico's government is pushing their people here as evidenced by the comic book showing them how to come here illegally, public statements, their attempt to fight the fence through international law and meeting with our politicians. It's our country, not yours! Mexico will not allow anyone to come illegally through their southern border, has armed troops to prevent this, yet think they have a free pass to the US. It's funny, how can you say they are hiding? Marching by the hundreds of thousands in our very streets is hiding? You sound like a politician trying to convince people Mexico taking over is a good thing or a member of La Raza (a very racist organization).
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