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Voters Did Not Endorse Amnesty: Open-Borders Advocates Distort Election Results
Human Events ^ | November 20 2006 | Mark Krikorian

Posted on 11/19/2006 4:43:19 PM PST by Reagan Man

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To: NapkinUser
Limbaugh said the democrats are already backing off the immigration thing.

That's good news if it turns out to be true. But I suspect the reason for backing off now has more to do with not wanting to give Bush the credit for an amnesty, they'd much rather prefer to wait until Hillary's in to pull off their scam.

221 posted on 11/20/2006 5:51:43 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: narby
Irregardless of how you make them leave, if 15 million people moved in short order, the result would be catastrophic
Actually, I am not calling for an immediate expulsion of 15-30 million people. I would give businesses an 18 month amnesty to get rid of illegals on their dime.
In this period, we would create a targeted guest worker program.

The leftist press would believably paint it as akin to a holocaust, and whatever party wrote the laws would be in deep caca.
1. Half the problem are libertarians, neoconservatives, and the country clubbers using the same language and giving the left cover.
2. The left will scream about anything we do.
Bush wants amnesty, the Democrats are supporting welfare for illegals. We still lose!

Therefore, it ain't going to happen nationwide. Get over it, and spend your energy encuraging assimilation. This country was the melting pot of the world for centuries, and I'm amazed that conservatives have surrendered to the idea that assimilation is now impossible.
Assimilation did not just occur.
It happened because every other generation we restricted immigration. We also created an education system to promote assimilation.
Today we have an education system promoting ethnic seperatism and you want to increase the number of people comming in? Shall we be forced to allow in another 50 million in the next 25 years?

222 posted on 11/20/2006 6:04:17 PM PST by rmlew (Having slit their throats may the conservatives who voted for Casey choke slowly on their blood.)
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To: rmlew
Today we have an education system promoting ethnic seperatism

That is precisely the problem. I grew up in New York City, and the entire education system there, up until the 1970s, was directed at assimilation - and it worked. It wasn't painless and seamless, but people ended up with enough in common to understand each other and their kids had enough background to get ahead in the US.

I believe Bush's plan called for programs to encourage assimilation, but that's pretty useless at the federal level. I think folks should get out there and work on their local school boards. Threaten to cut off the money unless they stop the multi-cult trash and start teaching things like English, real American history, etc., to everyone, regardless of where they or their parents were born. I think you'd be surprised by how many immigrants would join you. They came here to get ahead, not be trapped in a Dem immigrant ghetto.

223 posted on 11/20/2006 6:09:51 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
That is precisely the problem. I grew up in New York City, and the entire education system there, up until the 1970s, was directed at assimilation - and it worked.

The great Decentralization fiasco.

Although, I have a less charitable view of 1950's education. You were being taught largely by a bunch of communists and socialists. Many were themselves first or second generation Jewish or Irish Americans for whom a proper education was the ticket out of a slum. Their politics were also influenced by the World War II grand coalition and McCarthy era.
Their goal was to redefine America as a progressive country through education.

The 1960's radicals had a different perspective. For them everything was about race class and gender. Having no experience in actual poverty they had no respect for education as a tool for betterment. Rather pedagogy was ideology. Therefor they had no problem breaking things apart along racial lines and telling kids to be "authentically" ignorant. It was all about immediate radicallization.

This was Old Left vs New Left and in New York, Jew vs Black.
This was not somethings I hold as a role model.

224 posted on 11/20/2006 6:29:12 PM PST by rmlew (Having slit their throats may the conservatives who voted for Casey choke slowly on their blood.)
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To: rmlew
There was a lot of lefty stuff in New York, but kids in Catholic schools were also taught to assimilate, and believe me Catholic schools were not left-wing in those days. The multi-cult stuff was actually slower to start up in New York; I think you'd have to look to California to see where it really began. California text books were, by the late 1970s, transformed into total revisionist parodies of history, and the entire system was set up to divide and dumb down. California, being the biggest bookbuyer in the nation, unfortunately determines what almost all the rest of the public school kids in the US will read.

Many were themselves first or second generation Jewish or Irish Americans for whom a proper education was the ticket out of a slum.

What's wrong with that? Isn't that what we want people to do? Get an education and get ahead?

225 posted on 11/20/2006 6:50:38 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
I wrote: "Many were themselves first or second generation Jewish or Irish Americans for whom a proper education was the ticket out of a slum."

Livius responded
What's wrong with that? Isn't that what we want people to do? Get an education and get ahead?

Nothing. However, you miss the context. This is not a theoretical statement. Rather, I was noting this as one of the hindrances the ideological hijacking of education by the left.
The Stalinists and Trotskyites who went from City College into the NY Public school system in the 1930s were not good people. They were merely not as bad as their red diaper baby kids.
226 posted on 11/20/2006 7:07:01 PM PST by rmlew (Having slit their throats may the conservatives who voted for Casey choke slowly on their blood.)
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To: CONSERVE; Dane
HMMM for someone who thinks pelosi is so bad on all the issues you sure don't have any problems with Bush "Mr Amnesty" on the same issues they have in common "amnesty"

What an excellent point! We could ask Dane why he's so FOR a guest worker program when President Bush pushes it and so AGAINST Pelosi doing the exact same thing, but, as you will see by the lack of response to your post, Dane doesn't answer questions....unless of course, it's with another question.

227 posted on 11/20/2006 7:42:16 PM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: Reagan Man
It's all over the place...

Immigration sends GOP to defeat

228 posted on 11/20/2006 7:52:10 PM PST by Gritty (The Clinton apparatchiks reign in purloined splendor as the Romanovs of Chappaqua - Norman Liebmann)
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To: narby
This country was the melting pot of the world for centuries, and I'm amazed that conservatives have surrendered to the idea that assimilation is now impossible.

Exactly! That is why so many of us are so upset about Mexico over running America. It SHOULD be a melting pot, with a variety of immigrants as in the past (Africa, China, Europe). What the heck makes Mexico think they have a right to come here without following the same rules everyone else in the world follows? That is a question I've often asked of those supporting your side of the argument. I have yet to get an answer so why don't you tell me? Why should Mexico be allowed to just walk over the border when the rest of the decent world has millions of people who want to come here as well and are doing the right thing by coming legally? Or do you just believe in totally open immigration, no background checks and the entire world should send all their poor here? If it's good for Mexico then it should be good for the rest of the world as well?

229 posted on 11/20/2006 7:57:24 PM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: Gritty

And its a bold face lie.


230 posted on 11/20/2006 8:00:30 PM PST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't support amnesty and conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: Reagan Man
Americans consistently support building a wall on the border with Mexico

But apparently not enought to reward Republicans who passed the law to build it.

That doesn't mean Americans support amnesty. They don't!

And the Republicans didn't give them amnesty. So how come the voters didn't re-elect them?

Were the people just too stupid to vote for what you claim they wanted? Or is this situation a bit more complex than you make it out to be?

231 posted on 11/20/2006 9:16:27 PM PST by narby
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
We tried amnesty in 1986 and it failed. Many of those former illegals still don't speak a lick of English all these years later and you want to do it again?

When did I say I wanted 1986 all over again? You're assuming way too much.

People assume it's an easy thing to get illegals to go back to mexico, but an impossible thing to pursuade them to speak english. It's true that they won't assimilate without pursuasion, but instead of wasting your time trying to get the new Democratic Congress to pass draconian laws to send mexicans home (LOL, dream on), why aren't you spending your time at the local level getting mexicans into english class?

232 posted on 11/20/2006 9:23:35 PM PST by narby
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
[Limbaugh said the democrats are already backing off the immigration thing.] That's good news if it turns out to be true.

Yeah, they're laughing all the way to Congress. They like the status quo. More illegals every year, voting for more democrats.

Bush tried to normalize the situation and get it under control, but conservatives spit in his face and stayed home on election day.

The Dems have got to love it. They don't call Republicans the "stupid party" for nothing.

233 posted on 11/20/2006 9:28:14 PM PST by narby
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To: rmlew
Actually, I am not calling for an immediate expulsion of 15-30 million people. I would give businesses an 18 month amnesty to get rid of illegals on their dime.

Amnesty? AMNESTY! What is it about *illegal* don't you understand? They must go now!

In this period, we would create a targeted guest worker program.

No. Enforcement now, and we'll talk about other things later. That's what J.D. was insisting on, and he's right.

Assimilation did not just occur. [/sarcasm] It happened because every other generation we restricted immigration.

There were virtually no limits on immigration 100 years ago. At the time there was a larger percentage of the population born abroad than now. We assimilated them because we 1) welcomed them to America. And 2) insisted they join the American culture and learn English.

Telling a whole class of people that they are not welcome forces them into ethnic ghettos where they will never assimilate. It's not an accident that immigrants *stopped* assimilating when we started seriously limiting immigration at the unions behest 75 years ago. You have it exactly backward.

Today we have an education system promoting ethnic seperatism

Yes. So why are you wasting time trying to keep illegals out (which won't happen), when you could be spending your time fighting the education establishment and getting rid of multiculturalism? Some educrats are beginning to get the picture. Help them see the light.

Shall we be forced to allow in another 50 million in the next 25 years?

You have (had) a choice. Let them in under a legal framework. Or let them in the way the Democrats prefer, as an underclass they can exploit. The "anti-illegal" conservatives stupidly blocked Bush from creating that legal framework when he had the chance, and now they're going to have to continue to live under the Democrats system of anarchy on the border, and disintegrating American culture. The Stupid Party strikes again.

234 posted on 11/20/2006 9:44:44 PM PST by narby
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To: ozarkgirl
We could ask Dane why he's so FOR a guest worker program when President Bush pushes it and so AGAINST Pelosi doing the exact same thing

I bet Dane remembers all the way back to last year, when there were 50 or 100 different proposals offered up. Since then conservatives have demigoged all those proposals into one word ... "amnesty", which is now an entirely meaningless word, because it can mean anything.

So maybe Dane believes as I do that there were good "amnesty" proposals, and bad "amnesty" proposals, and doesn't want the bad proposal Pelosi would surely offer over what the Republican Congress could have passed if it had any brains.

235 posted on 11/20/2006 9:50:42 PM PST by narby
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To: Gritty
It's all over the place...

Truth has a way of doing that.

236 posted on 11/20/2006 9:52:31 PM PST by narby
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To: ozarkgirl
What the heck makes Mexico think they have a right to come here ... I have yet to get an answer so why don't you tell me?

Mexico is not coming here. It's citizens are. They know they don't have a right to be here, which is why they hide in their barrios instead of assimilating in the greater American culture.

237 posted on 11/20/2006 9:57:41 PM PST by narby
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To: narby

The major issues in the election go beyond just immigration. The #1 issue for Democrats and many Independents was the ongoing battle for Iraq. For conservatives the major issues were excessive spending, expansion of the welfare state bureaucracy and immigration. Basic competence in leadesrhip also played a key factor for conservatives. Not enough conservative Republicans were convinced the GOP would do anything about the issues that mattered to them. So they stayed home. The GOP simply didn't get a big enough turnout of voters to off set the growing opposition to Iraq. Conservatives cost the GOP control of Congress, and rightfully so.


238 posted on 11/20/2006 10:02:50 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: narby
Oh. So its a piece of cake for an unskilled mexican to immigrate.

There are Guest Worker programs running today. It appears noone wants to use them, it's more prosperous doing it ILLEGALLY.

That looks like a wonderful business model. Mexicans are paying a thousand or more dollars to coyotees to get them here illegally now. All you've got to do is put out your shingle in TJ and bring as many across with full papers as you can handle. You should be rich. I'll expect to see your name on the Forbes list of millionares soon.

I reckon you'll have a while to wait considering I don't help people cross the border ILLEGALLY. I can't quite figure out how you got here. Blackbird.

239 posted on 11/21/2006 3:22:42 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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To: narby
Mexico is not coming here. It's citizens are. They know they don't have a right to be here, which is why they hide in their barrios instead of assimilating in the greater American culture.

They're hardly hiding. They are marching in the streets. And Mexico's government is pushing their people here as evidenced by the comic book showing them how to come here illegally, public statements, their attempt to fight the fence through international law and meeting with our politicians. It's our country, not yours! Mexico will not allow anyone to come illegally through their southern border, has armed troops to prevent this, yet think they have a free pass to the US. It's funny, how can you say they are hiding? Marching by the hundreds of thousands in our very streets is hiding? You sound like a politician trying to convince people Mexico taking over is a good thing or a member of La Raza (a very racist organization).

240 posted on 11/21/2006 5:31:32 AM PST by ozarkgirl
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