Posted on 11/19/2006 10:30:36 AM PST by Brilliant
A senior House Democrat said Sunday he will introduce legislation to reinstate the military draft, asserting that current troop levels are insufficient to sustain possible challenges against Iran, North Korea and Iraq.
"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," said Rep. Charles Rangel (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y.
Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose the measure early next year.
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," he said.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record), a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.
"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.
Rangel, incoming chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.
"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.
He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.
Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."
Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.
Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."
Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.
The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System trains, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 — now about 16 million — from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.
Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.
Last time Rangel voted against his own draft bill.
Just what we need, another welfare program. We already have te Clinton boondoggle called Americorps. Look it up; it's a real loser.
What ever makes people think servitude is something a free country does ?
The military, to the best of my knowledge, does not take convicts. Nor should the military be a babysitter for those whose main problem is no father at home, no education, and drug problems.
pandoraou812 to begin with I don't think that those that you are referring to would pass the physical fitness tests.
Why did you ask this question?
Maybe this is a good thing.
Republicans could never have gotten away with proposing a draft - but could be some form of national service, is just what the youth of America need.
Seriously. Many seem aimless, almost lost. Give them a purpose for once. Get them out from behind their hyphenated-identity nonsense, together as just Americans for the first time in their lives.
Many have grown up smothered by a generation of ex-hippies as parents. Give them an alternative to that.
Give them choices. Military service. Health care service. Or infrastructure. Two years, then out. Pay a reasonable wage, and you've got a whole new generation of purpose-driven, possibly gung ho patriotic young people, with some real job aptitudes and sense of togetherness, entering the US workforce.
What's a better idea? More illegals and contract workers from India and China?
Let's take him up on the idea.
I never suggested anything of the kind!!
No I don't think they would. But in a draft everyone has to get their draft cards. So now we spend money sorting out the ones who can serve and the ones who can't. More wasted money that could go to arming our soldiers better. I am not against a draft if need be. If I had to I would gladly serve my country but I am just too old and theres plenty of people that just wouldn't like the idea of pandora with a gun. You must be very proud to have a son serving his country. My prayers for him and my thanks.
I asked because I would like to know. Do you know?
It shouldn't take too much head scratching to figure out that I was NOT referring to the young people who volunteer for the military. I'm talking about the ones who grow up with practically everything given to them. Many of them think they are actually owed it.
Some different from the way I grew up. We lived in a couple of different drafty old houses houses on side hill farms. The wind blew snowdrifts onto the kitchen floor through the cracks in the wall. We always had chores to do and it didn't matter what time of year it was, dad always had plenty of work for us 5 kids to do. Do you think you could get any kids to put away loose hay under a metal barn roof on the hottest day of the year these days? I rather doubt it. That's just one example of what life was like in my youth. Dad always told us it would be fine if we wanted to quit school; he had plenty for us to do. All 5 of us have bachelor's degrees and two have master's.
I went to college and my parents never paid a nickel toward it. I did it all on my own. And when college was over, I got drafted into the Marine Corps. That wasn't my idea of something I wanted to do but it didn't do me any harm. Quite the contrary.
Around here, we have young people from all kinds of foreign countries who come here to work. Why? Because there aren't enough willing American workers to do the jobs. At one camp where I do part time work in the summer, they can get American kids to run their recreation program but not a one is interested in being a housekeeper, kitchen worker or other similar menial tasks. To find a kid who doesn't mind working is not an easy thing to do. All they want to do is play. That's all they ever have had to do. They don't know hard times and they don't know hard work. Many of them think it's beneath them.
No, I'm not retired. And I'm not rich. I still think that the draft is not a bad thing. A kid needs to learn that that is how this country got to be great like it is, not by playing video games, eating pizza and looking for the next party.
It is a trap. The military does not need or want conscripts. In the type of war we are fighting they would be worse than useless.
That's pretty funny, since we pulled out of Vietnam after the Dims defunded the war BECAUSE of the domestic and foreign media.
What would make it any different today ? The media is still against any military engagement we do unless it's under the aegis of a Dim president.
"Rove, you magnificent bastard!"
HHHHHOOOOORRRRAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!! And YES NO DRAFT! We have the BEST of the BEST and "We the People don't need Rangel or his draftees.
In 2004, the Pentagon published a "Moral Waiver Study," whose seemingly benign goal was "to better define relationships between pre-Service behaviors and subsequent Service success." That turned out to mean opening more recruitment doors to potential enlistees with criminal records.
In February, the Baltimore Sun wrote that there was "a significant increase in the number of recruits with what the Army terms 'serious criminal misconduct' in their background" -- a category that included "aggravated assault, robbery, vehicular manslaughter, receiving stolen property and making terrorist threats." From 2004 to 2005, the number of those recruits rose by more than 54 percent, while alcohol and illegal drug waivers, reversing a four-year decline, increased by more than 13 percent.
In June, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that, under pressure to fill the ranks, the Army had been allowing into its ranks increasing numbers of "recruits convicted of misdemeanor crimes, according to experts and military records." In fact, as the military's own data indicated, "the percentage of recruits entering the Army with waivers for misdemeanors and medical problems has more than doubled since 2001."
One beneficiary of the Army's new moral-waiver policies gained a certain prominence this summer. After Steven Green, who served in the 101st Airborne Division, was charged in a rape and quadruple murder in Mahmudiyah, Iraq, it was disclosed that he had been "a high-school dropout from a broken home who enlisted to get some direction in his life, yet was sent home early because of an anti-social personality disorder."
Recently, Eli Flyer, a former Pentagon senior military analyst and specialist on the relationship between military recruiting and military misconduct, told Harper's magazine that Green had "enlisted with a moral waiver for at least two drug- or alcohol-related offenses. He committed a third alcohol-related offense just before enlistment, which led to jail time, although this offense may not have been known to the Army when he enlisted."
With Green in jail awaiting trial, the Houston Chronicle reported in August that Army recruiters were trolling around the outskirts of a Dallas-area job fair for ex-convicts.
"We're looking for high school graduates with no more than one felony on their record," one recruiter said.
Your post reminds me of what life on the farm was like for my mother. There were 10 kids and everyone of them made something of themselves without any help from my grandparents. Now I live at the Jersey shore and most of the jobs teenagers would be glad to do are outsourced to teens from Ireland and other countries. I am talking about housecleaning for hotels and the boardwalk jobs. When I was a teen those jobs were for us not given to teens from other countries. I know many teens who have tried to get jobs on the boardwalk to be told no , we hire from Ireland etc. That isn't fair but its how it is. I think the draft can be a good thing for some but we have many that should not be in the service. Maybe they could find other places to put them where they could serve their country but not with guns.
In 2004 John Kerry kept saying if re-elected George Bush was planning to re-establish the draft. Many of us said at the time that this was BS and if anything the Dems would re-instate the draft if given a chance. Hmmm turns out we were all correct.
Yes, I do know- as stated & sent to you, in #299.
You said all citizens for two years. Last time I checked a lot of young men are doing time behind bars for crimes ranging from drugs to murder. A lot of so-called conservatives here have said the draft and "doing time" in the military with its legendary discipline will give kids who don't have it now a sense of duty, purpose, a chance in life blah blah blah.
I'm simply pointing out that a draft is not desirable in a FREE country. Based on the postings of quite a few people in this thread, we don't want a free country any more.
If we want a social welfare program to further indoctrinate kids with motivation, duty, and responsibility after the indoctrination of their K-12 schools has failed, then let's say so. Let's not burden the military with this crap.
correction- Yes, I do know- as stated & sent to you in #306.
All that said, I think everyone should be required to perform at least two years public service, military or other wise. It builds character and could possibly be a way to break the socialist welfare cycle.
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