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Can the Neocons Get Their Groove Back?
Washington Post ^ | 19 November 2006 | Joshua Muravchik

Posted on 11/19/2006 6:51:55 AM PST by shrinkermd

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To: kjo
how to stop McCain. The MSM has him rolling.

That should be a big warning sign. McCain is a useful idiot for the left. That is all he is.

21 posted on 11/19/2006 8:30:07 AM PST by SteamShovel
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To: SteamShovel
yup....McCain is a useful idiot for the left. That is all he is.
...and Sen. John "KEATING FIVE" McCain, has much more "adverse PR" (just google it, "KEATING FIVE" :) now....any of "the Clintoons' Baggage, shall have been swept under the rug, just like Bubbas' presidency.
22 posted on 11/19/2006 8:54:51 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just b/c your paranoid; Doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you. :^)
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To: shrinkermd

One of the few positive things to have happened is that "Neocons" have been thoroughly discredited. Earth to Bill Kristol, don't promote a war, unless you have the balls to fight it.


23 posted on 11/19/2006 9:01:39 AM PST by stop_fascism
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To: shrinkermd

Operation Comeback. How to Save the Neocons
American Enterprise Institute ^ | 11/1/06 | Joshua Muravchik

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1736193/posts
Posted on 11/10/2006 7:23:07 AM CST by Valin


TO: My Fellow Neoconservatives FROM: Joshua Muravchik RE: How to Save the Neocons

We neoconservatives have been through a startling few years. Who could have imagined six years ago that wild stories about our influence over U.S. foreign policy would reach the far corners of the globe? The loose group of us who felt impelled by the antics of the 1960s to migrate from the political left to right must have numbered fewer than 100. And we were proven losers at Washington’s power game: The left had driven us from the Democratic Party, stolen the “liberal” label, and successfully affixed to us the name “neoconservative.” In reality, of course, we don’t wield any of the power that contemporary legend attributes to us. Most of us don’t rise at the crack of dawn to report to powerful jobs in government. But it is true that our ideas have influenced the policies of President George W. Bush, as they did those of President Ronald Reagan. That does feel good. Our intellectual contributions helped to defeat communism in the last century and, God willing, they will help to defeat jihadism in this one. It also feels good to see that a number of young people and older converts are swelling our ranks.

The price of this success is that we are subjected to relentless obloquy. “Neocon” is now widely synonymous with “ultraconservative” or, for some, “dirty Jew.” A young Egyptian once said to me, “‘Neoconservative’ sounds to our ears like ‘terrorist’ sounds to yours.” I am shocked to hear that some among us, wearying of these attacks, are sidling away from the neocon label. Where is the joie de combat? The essential tenets of neoconservatism--belief that world peace is indivisible, that ideas are powerful, that freedom and democracy are universally valid, and that evil exists and must be confronted--are as valid today as when we first began. That is why we must continue to fight. But we need to sharpen our game. Here are some thoughts on how to do it:
(snip)


24 posted on 11/19/2006 9:06:13 AM PST by Valin (Rick Santorum 08)
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To: stop_fascism

One of the few positive things to have happened is that "Neocons" have been thoroughly discredited

Really? How so?


25 posted on 11/19/2006 9:07:07 AM PST by Valin (Rick Santorum 08)
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To: All
It is the war in Iraq that has made "neocon" a dirty word

Why are neo-cons considered a Republican phenomenon?

Disillusioned liberal intellectuals in the 1970s fled the New Left-dominated Democrat Party under a shower of insulting taunts from the extremists, "Neo-Cons!"

The liberals were too traditional, too patriotic, too pro-America for what is the Democrat Party.

The liberals did not want to "Bring it all down, man." They had to be purged and destroyed along with conservatives.

Pat Buchanan has referred to them as "McGovern boat people."

26 posted on 11/19/2006 9:27:49 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Pat Buchanan! Ah yes, that paragon of conservative virtue who chose a communist as his running mate. Hello kettle, my name is Pot...you're black
27 posted on 11/19/2006 9:33:10 AM PST by Valin (Rick Santorum 08)
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To: Valin

The Iraq war is seen as a Neocon concept. Therefor they lose all those who are against the war. Second, Neocons like Kristol and Aldlemaon, were quick to abandon the administration as soon as we had a few causualties in Iraq, thereby losing the support of those of us who believe that you don't start a war unless you have the stamina to win it. Therefore, I'd say they are thoroughly discredited. If you don't agree, please tell me who is taking those people seriously.


28 posted on 11/19/2006 9:34:22 AM PST by stop_fascism
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To: Crimson Elephant
The "neocon" label is meaningless now. I'm not sure it ever HAD a meaning anyway, but now...........it means about 13 things to 13 different people.

The terms "neocon" and "paleocon" are terms used by the left in an attempt to divide and conquer conservatives. The terms are used to appeal to any conservative who sees some other conservative as being not-conservative on an issue. It implies a present day erosion of conservatism when in reality there has always been differences amongst conservatives on issues.

In reality there is only conservatism and non-conservatism.

29 posted on 11/19/2006 9:47:40 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

This is my understanding of it...

Pope Condemns Neoliberalism

"More and more, in many countries of America, a system known as "neoliberalism" prevails; based on a purely economic conception of the human person, this sytem considers profit and the law of the market as its only parameters, to the detriment of the dignity of and the respect due to individuals and peoples. At times this system has become the ideological justification for certain attitudes and behavior in the social and political spheres leading to the neglect of the weaker members of society. Indeed, the poor are becoming ever more numerous, victims of specific policies and structures which are often unjust."
from Ecclesia in America (No. 56), Report of the Synod of America

WHAT IS NEOLIBERALISM?

Neoliberalism is known in the United States as neoconservatism. Its Catholic proponents are Fr. John Neuhaus, George Weigel, Michael Novak and Fr. Robert Sirico. Their publications are available through the American Enterprise Institue, the Ethics and Public Policy Center, the Acton Institute and First Things magazine.

1. The ideology of the Invisible Hand of the Market. The authority of the market is unchallenged. For many it is higher than God--an 'idolatry of the market' (Centesimus Annus, n.40).

2. Slave wages and unsafe working conditions in poor countries in maquiladoras (factories which belong to companies in the U.S. or other highly developed countries) and in some parts of the United States.

3. It is amazing that "free market" proponents are opposed to big government, but depend on the governments of wealthy nations for their protection in reaping enormous profits at the expense of the poor. Rather than laissez-faire, it is government- supported capitalism for the few.

4. Privatization of all public and state-owned enterprises.

5. Control of women's reproduction by companies, especially maquiladoras. Proof of no pregnancy frequently required.

6. Tax free zones (no help for the local community) and blackballing of union organizers wherever there are maquiladoras-arranged by the U. S. government.

7. Harsh austerity programs (Structural Adjustment) imposed on poor countries related to repayment of irresponsible loans from the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.

8. A World Trade Organization controlled by rich nations to the detriment of poorer ones. A "Group of Eight" well-to-do countries whose representatives meet regularly to plan the world economy.

9. Enormous transnational companies and trade agreements which destroy small businesses.

10. Agribusinesses, operating on a huge scale, which make it im-possible for small farmers to succeed in any country. Large companies patent seeds and plants, which have been developed for centuries by indigenous peoples, stealing them from the poor of the earth.

11. Huge discrepancies between CEO's making millions of dollars and the salaries of their workers in the United States, as well as in maquiladoras. (A Wal-Mart clerk would have to work 312 years to match the 1997 pay of the Wal-Mart CEO).

12. Government economic policies separated from the common good, making the defeat of inflation the goal above all other economic goals (e.g., Alan Greenspan at the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department). A Catholic neoconservative has stated publicly that slave wages must be paid in poor countries in order to keep down inflation.

13. In neoliberalism the realization of social and ethical ideals is only in the response of the individual. It frees the state from any social and ethical responsibility. Thus, social policy is not necessary.

14. Neoliberalism is a cousin, maybe a first cousin of social Darwinism, where the fittest dictate all and take all.

15. Solidarity is out. Those who make money easily in this system with government support disavow the needy, deny funds for social needs, and blame the poor or their character or culture for their lack of material goods. Those who receive large stock bonuses often forget the worker who produced them.

16. Pernicious consumerist materialism promoted by advertising, even in poor, developing countries.

17. Neoliberalists/neoconservatives declare that the only alternatives are their policies are socialism or Communism. Not true! There are other ways! (e.g., Jeff Gates, The Ownership Solution, Addison Wesley, 1998.

Houston Catholic Worker, Vol. XIX, No. 2, Mar.-Apr. 1999.


30 posted on 11/19/2006 10:05:29 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: Crimson Elephant
'thirteen things to 13 different people'

That is how I see the state of conservatism. People have different standards for judging what they perceive to be conservative. Free Republic is a daily testimony to the various degrees of conservatism that posters consider as being the TRUE conservative position. There seems to be a difference between THE conservative position, and A conservative one. I don't know where I fall but I do detest Bill Kristol and his chums so at least I know that I am not a neocon. One down and 12 or so more to filter through!
31 posted on 11/19/2006 10:16:40 AM PST by mountainfolk (God Bless President George Bush)
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To: FreeReign
"The terms "neocon" and "paleocon" are terms used by the left in an attempt to divide and conquer conservatives. The terms are used to appeal to any conservative who sees some other conservative as being not-conservative on an issue. It implies a present day erosion of conservatism when in reality there has always been differences amongst conservatives on issues.

In reality there is only conservatism and non-conservatism."

Steve Sailor summed up the Neocon philosophy quite nicely:

"Invite the world, invade the world."

"Paleocons" are America first, traditional conservatives that agree with Washington's farewell address: "Avoid foreign entanglements."

There is simply nothing conservative about exporting democracy and open borders. It's a fools game promoted by elites to further the aims of "The new world order".

I can still remember all the cries among conservatives about "nation building". Now all I hear is silence.

This isn't about the left dividing conservatives. This is about the Rockefeller banking Republicans using the America hating left tools to merge our country into World Government. A new Feudalism. And guess who gets to be the serfs.
32 posted on 11/19/2006 10:29:58 AM PST by outdriving (Diversity is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.)
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To: All

To me neocons lives in the present and sees the future.. Paleocons live in the past and would like to turn back the clock....


33 posted on 11/19/2006 10:40:20 AM PST by KevinDavis (Nancy you ignorant Slut!!!!!)
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To: outdriving
The terms "neocon" and "paleocon" are terms used by the left in an attempt to divide and conquer conservatives. The terms are used to appeal to any conservative who sees some other conservative as being not-conservative on an issue. It implies a present day erosion of conservatism when in reality there has always been differences amongst conservatives on issues. In reality there is only conservatism and non-conservatism.

Steve Sailor summed up the Neocon philosophy quite nicely: "Invite the world, invade the world." "Paleocons" are America first, traditional conservatives that agree with Washington's farewell address: "Avoid foreign entanglements." There is simply nothing conservative about exporting democracy and open borders. It's a fools game promoted by elites to further the aims of "The new world order". There is simply nothing conservative about exporting democracy and open borders. It's a fools game promoted by elites to further the aims of "The new world order". There is simply nothing conservative about exporting democracy and open borders. It's a fools game promoted by elites to further the aims of "The new world order".

Protecting the sovereignty of one's borders is conservative.

Removing dangerous dictators in this day and age of WMD is conservative.

The terms "Paeleocon" and "Neocon" are WP-type BS.

BTW, without the help of the "entangled" French army, George Washington and this conservative country may never have won the Revolution.

34 posted on 11/19/2006 10:40:36 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
"Protecting the sovereignty of one's borders is conservative."

It certainly is. Please tell us what the Neocons are doing to protect our borders? They want open borders.

"Removing dangerous dictators in this day and age of WMD is conservative."

You mean like Kim Jung Il?, or the Iranian nutjob? What about the Chinese and the Russians? They aren't/weren't dangerous? Where does it end?

"The terms "Paeleocon" and "Neocon" are WP-type BS."

You're right, the so called "Paleocons" are conservatives. The "Neocons" are facists.

"BTW, without the help of the "entangled" French army, George Washington and this conservative country may never have won the Revolution."

You forgot the Hessian mercenaries. But you are forgetting that the French helped us not out of "entanglements", but out of hatred of the British. If not for the entanglements of the UN resolutions, Bush would have had no excuse to invade Iraq.

France offering aid to our revolution is not the same as the U.S. invasion and occupation of a sovereign country with no congressional declaration of war.

You have a strange definition of conservative. To me, conservative is having respect for law. Removing "dangerous dictators" with WMD is arguably wise, but it is not "conservative".

It is a radically progressive, leftist idealism.
35 posted on 11/19/2006 11:27:34 AM PST by outdriving (Diversity is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.)
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To: kjo
A few weeks ago some thought Senator Allen was an alternative for the GOP nomination; look what the media did to him.



The media is always against the GOP. Allen did it to himself. Mr. Big spending ...Macaca aw shucking it up with his cowboy boots and chewing tobacco had underestimated his opponent and misread the electorate. Let this be a lesson for the GOP on 08.
36 posted on 11/19/2006 11:40:58 AM PST by Blackirish
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To: kjo
A few weeks ago some thought Senator Allen was an alternative for the GOP nomination; look what the media did to him.



The media is always against the GOP. Allen did it to himself. Mr. Big spending ...Macaca aw shucking it up with his cowboy boots and chewing tobacco had underestimated his opponent and misread the electorate. Let this be a lesson for the GOP on 08.
37 posted on 11/19/2006 11:41:02 AM PST by Blackirish
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To: shrinkermd
article: Neoconservative ideas have been vindicated again and again on a string of major issues, including the Cold War, Bosnia and NATO expansion. It is the war in Iraq that has made "neocon" a dirty word, either because Bush's team woefully mismanaged the war or because the war (which neocons supported) was misconceived.

A neocon defending neocon territory. Pretty self-serving.

Neo-cons did not win the Cold War. To the contrary, they spent most of that period cheering for the Soviets. An inconvenient fact but a fact nonetheless.

And if Bosnia is a shining example of neo-con brilliance, then I'll give them full credit. But it was a complete Xlintonian/Eurotwit/Frenchish disaster from beginning to end.

And now, they retreat to Bush-was-incompetent or brilliant-but-untimely-plan or other drivel. I guess that's easy to say if none of your kids died or were maimed in Iraq.
38 posted on 11/19/2006 12:54:52 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: outdriving
France offering aid to our revolution is not the same as the U.S. invasion and occupation of a sovereign country with no congressional declaration of war.

Congress declared war.This has been covered here on FR many times. Don't post such stale propaganda.

You have a strange definition of conservative. To me, conservative is having respect for law.

I've done nothing to disrespect the law. What a dopey comment.

Ping me only when you have something constructive to say. okay? Thanks.

BTW, only a global socialist such as yourself would think Saddam's Iraq was remarkably "sovereign".

39 posted on 11/19/2006 3:23:16 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
"Congress declared war.This has been covered here on FR many times. Don't post such stale propaganda."

The last time Congress declared war was in 1941. There is no "debate" about this.

"I've done nothing to disrespect the law. What a dopey comment."

The only thing "dopey" is your lack of reading comprehension. I didn't accuse you of anything.

"Ping me only when you have something constructive to say. okay? Thanks."

Public debates are not about you. You made statements in a public forum I disagreed with, and said so publicly. Just like now, responding to your public response.

"BTW, only a global socialist such as yourself would think Saddam's Iraq was remarkably "sovereign"."

Remarkably sovereign? Is that like remarkably pregnant? You crack me up, dude.

BTW, Global Socialist is an excellent description for Neocons. One of whom, I am most assuredly not.
40 posted on 11/19/2006 6:18:46 PM PST by outdriving (Diversity is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.)
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