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A Question from a Webb Supporter
The Washington Post ^ | November 14, 2006 | John Whitesides

Posted on 11/14/2006 1:51:18 PM PST by DCBandita

The announcement by McCain, who has put together campaign organizations in many of the states with early nominating contests, was widely expected. The intentions of Giuliani, who has been less active in early organizing, had been less clear.

Giuliani's campaign team said the committee was simply an opening move designed to keep his options open, with a final decision still to come.

"This filing affords him the opportunity to raise money and put together an organization to assist him in making his decision," Giuliani adviser Anthony Carbonetti said.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: conservatives; neocons; theocons; zot
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To: Petronski

Oooh... Good one!! Bet you're fun at parties.


401 posted on 11/14/2006 6:03:08 PM PST by DCBandita
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To: DCBandita
Good one!!

Yep.

402 posted on 11/14/2006 6:04:30 PM PST by Petronski (BRABANTIO: Thou art a villain. IAGO: You are--a senator. ---Othello I.i.)
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To: Joan Kerrey

"extremism in the defense of liberty is not a virtue"
Barry Goldwater.


403 posted on 11/14/2006 6:04:36 PM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, ATF and DEA)
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To: DCBandita
And aren't you the same person who, about 200 comments ago, basically said that only those women who have given birth have the right to an informed opinion about abortion?

Uh, no. But thanks for playing.

404 posted on 11/14/2006 6:05:23 PM PST by Petronski (BRABANTIO: Thou art a villain. IAGO: You are--a senator. ---Othello I.i.)
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To: DCBandita

"If a cool-down period prevents one crime of passion, I think it's worth it."


What if that cool-down period gives your violent ex the three- or seven- or ten-days he needs to track you down and kill you?


405 posted on 11/14/2006 6:05:27 PM PST by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: jwalsh07
That is a well crafted statement for the case for Iraq. The only problem with it, was what was the rush given that WMD's did not seem to be operational, and the terrorist thingy is a bit attenuated, because despite the presence of bad guys, it was hardly a mass haven for them. No, the case in my mind was, and always was, primarily grounded on humanitarian concerns, and bringing to justice a mass killer, and that case has been debased by our underestimating, and my underestimating, the risk of unleashing the dogs of civil war.

I hope and "pray" it will end up OK, but it may well not, and the end game may well end up increasing the body count, rather than truncating it, under new authoritarian auspices. We need to think hard how to separate the warring factions, and fashion some modus vivendi that will hold, to avoid that sad end, as well as an end to American idealism when it comes to these matters.

406 posted on 11/14/2006 6:05:45 PM PST by Torie
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To: DCBandita
If a cool-down period prevents one crime of passion, I think it's worth it.

Would that you apply that idea to abortion.

Or to abstinence.

407 posted on 11/14/2006 6:06:52 PM PST by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: jwalsh07

You think Rudy is soft on "islamofascists?"


408 posted on 11/14/2006 6:06:58 PM PST by Torie
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To: Torie

No, I think McCain would be better able to rally Americans in the effort to see the war through. I call'um as I see'um as much as it pains me.


409 posted on 11/14/2006 6:10:30 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: DCBandita
I would never want a person who didn't want an abortion to have one. So WHY - if my moral matrix says that abortion is NOT murder and a matter of personal choice up to a certain time, would anyone tell me that I couldn't have one?

Because not having an abortion doesn't result in (what many see as) the death of a child. Having an abortion does result in that. Not much more to it than that.

410 posted on 11/14/2006 6:11:04 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: jwalsh07
If an unborn baby is not a human being what is it? Until a certain point, it's nothing. It's a bunch of cells. And see if you and your friends can find just ONE law in this country that is absent a moral component. I could find them, and you would find the moral component. Morality is relative - what I would see as not having a moral component you may see as solely morality-based. I'm not trying to duck the question (the second one) - it's just that morality IS relative as proven by the discussion had here on abortion. I'm not a bad person because I don't believe it's murder and because I don't believe life begins at the moment of conception. You're not a bad person because you do. We just have different morals and, with that as a baseline, are unlikely to agree on issues of morality.
411 posted on 11/14/2006 6:11:06 PM PST by DCBandita
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To: jwalsh07
In other news, the city of Norwich does not wish to bother with a recount. The vote lady seems satisfied that the totals were accurate. Why do I get this feeling that Norwich is controlled by Dems?
412 posted on 11/14/2006 6:11:43 PM PST by Torie
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To: jwalsh07

Rudy is the effective orator, and the persuader, not John. Rudy has been pretty solid on this issue. Time will tell I guess. JMO.


413 posted on 11/14/2006 6:13:08 PM PST by Torie
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To: NittanyLion
Then the people who see it as the death of a child shouldn't have one. And no one should make them. But I do NOT see it that way. I've seen the reference to "science" here in the thread - and for every scientist you put forward to support a pro-life stance, I have one who will provide equally quality science to support a pro-choice stance. The agreement is NEVER going to come. Ever. Meanwhile, there are issues that don't involve this moral and ideological divide that can be addressed, but we're too busy fighting morality flame-wars to make that happen.
414 posted on 11/14/2006 6:14:34 PM PST by DCBandita
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To: DCBandita

If it's abortion you want, you don't need religion to know that it's an unspeakable crime. You can discover that without religion to tell you.


415 posted on 11/14/2006 6:15:24 PM PST by ducdriver ("Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance." GKC)
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To: DCBandita

Regarding the upper 2% - who do you think creates jobs to employ workers ? Not the middle class, not the top 10%, but the top 1% who "invest" that money in businesses which employ people. It is no coincidence that when the tax cuts were enacted, businesses started hiring.

I fully agree that we cannot keep spending at this rate. It's madness. But, let's look at priorities. Why do we continue to throw money at a failing school system to the tune of 500 billion a year ? Now, there's a number. Why are we spending money on rainforest projects in Illinois, and all other kinds of pork. Sen. Byrd, a Democrat, is called the king of pork for good reason. Why do congresscritters get to retire with a full pension and benefits after only a few years of service ?

Why do Democrats always talk about raising taxes and so little about reducing spending ? You know the history of all politicians is to spend to buy votes, so starving the beast is the only answer.

No one in this country goes without healthcare. No one. They may go without health insurance, but not health care.
Catastrophic health insurance is very reasonably priced - those who don't have health insurance are either uninsurable because of a major pre-existing condition or they don't care to get it. I know a bunch of people (young and healthy) who choose not to spend their money on health insurance. Well, it's their gamble, but we all pay for it with emergency room bills.

Bankrupticies have grown primarily because people view it as the easy way out of debt. Run up the bills, then get out of their obligations. All part of the entitlement mentality fostered by Democrats.

Foreclosures are beginning to grow. Why ? For the same reason people run a balance on their credit cards - they buy a house they cannot afford. In many communities it's cheaper all round to rent, but some people get interest only mortgages to buy that 4400 sq ft mcmansion. Their choice, they pay the price.

When all is said and done, people have to take responsibility for themselves and their families, much as the Democrats like to think they can take over family life with taxpayer dollars and social workers. The middle class spends about 40% of their paycheck on taxes to support the Democrat socialist agenda. Think what they could do with that money left in their own hands.

And what about those who are truly irresponsible ? Well, they need a reality check. If taxpayers weren't making life so easy for them to escape their obligations, maybe they'd get up off their butts, get an education, and get to work.


416 posted on 11/14/2006 6:16:25 PM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: DCBandita
It is not a choice I would make for myself, frankly, for a host of reasons.

I don't mean to pry, but would you mind if I asked you to elaborate on those reasons?

When an egg is fertilized, it's a mass of cells. Yes, cells with unique DNA but cells nonetheless, as indistinct to me as any other mass of cells. That's the first thing.

Is it not just a mass of cells on Day 89? 91? 180? People who are pro-life have a hard time understanding at what moment the mass of cells converts to a human. The only two bright lines I can see are conception and birth, and even you've admitted that birth isn't the right standard.

The second thing is an essential belief that people just have sex...The only thing that stops it is to stop sex that leads to unwanted pregnancies OR to severaly minimize the likelihood that an unwanted pregnancy arises as a result of having sex. That would mean we would have to acknowledge that even young people (our daughters and sons) have sex and should have access to birth control. Yet the people I characterize as the "religious right" seem to be opposed to the sex, the birth control, and the potential abortion. I can't add that math up.

On that we agree, but I would submit that birth control education is a private matter that should be handled by the family - not something that is administered in a public school.

If you hate abortion, making it illegal isn't going to stop it.

True enough. But there are many things that are illegal, and we understand those activities continue. They're illegal because society is damaged by them, and as a society we've decided that we cannot condone the behavior.

417 posted on 11/14/2006 6:17:56 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: DCBandita
Until a certain point, it's nothing.

Overstatement is a killer when it comes to winning a case. Trust me. One can say "it" is different, that it is reasonable if controversial and subjective to distinguish between the incoate insentient fetus (even though the incoate insentient is programed to become just as fully human as you or I), as opposed to the sentient one at some level with nerve action, or to draw a line between the fetus that is viable to survive outside the womb, as opposed to not, which is also subjective, but the use of the word "nothing" just gets one out on a limb, which is easily chopped off.

418 posted on 11/14/2006 6:18:33 PM PST by Torie
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To: DCBandita
Then the people who see it as the death of a child shouldn't have one. And no one should make them. But I do NOT see it that way.

Isn't that just an easy answer? Some people don't see embezzling money from a large corporation as a bad thing. Should we just state that it's okay for some, and those that don't agree simply shouldn't participate?

419 posted on 11/14/2006 6:20:56 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Torie
This war, like the Cold War, is not a sprint, it is a marathon and it will take intestinal fortitude and strong leadership to see it through.

WMD's being operational, even at this date, is a guess at best. Nobody knew and we could not chance it post 9/11, we just could not. And of course Husseins brutality and mass murder were cause to kill him and his sons and take the Baathists down but in a world of realpolitik not enough in and of itself.

Giving safe harbor to the worst of the worst terrorists with worldwide connections is not a small thing. He allowed Ansar al Islam to terrorize the Kurds and met with their leadership. He gave asylum to Abu Abbas, Abu Nidal and Zarqawi. No, the confluence of those men, his WMD technology, his hatred of America and a post 9/11 world demanded we take him down there and then. And that's how Congress saw it, rigthfully I might add.

Now we are slogging admittedly. Plenty of blame to go around but war is a messy business. We should have done this and that, the commanders on the ground should have killed Sadr a long time ago. We embraced asymmetrical warfare when we should have given a lesson in symmetrical warfare, eg. kill Sadr and wipe out his militia.

We need stronger leadership from Bush, McCain in his corner and the will to win. If we withdraw prematurely we will pay. I make that prediction with the utmost confidence in it. I've been watching the islamonuts for many years now Torie. I knew it was bin Laden who did 9/11 before his name was fashionable.

From my perspective there really is only one choice.

420 posted on 11/14/2006 6:22:17 PM PST by jwalsh07
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