Posted on 11/13/2006 10:57:02 PM PST by B4Ranch
FAITH UNDER FIRE
Ten Commandments stunner:
Feds lying at Supreme Court
Government tells modern visitors
it's Bill of Rights being honored
Every argument before the U.S. Supreme Court and every opinion the judges deliver comes in the presence of the Ten Commandments, God's law given to Moses on a fire-scorched mountain, and now represented for the United States in the very artwork embedded in the high court structure.
In today's world of revisionist history, the proof comes through the work of a California pastor who visited the Supreme Court building recently when he was in Washington and was surprised that what the tour guides were telling him wasn't the same thing as what he was seeing.
Todd DuBord, pastor of the Lake Almanor Community Church in California, said he was traveling with his wife, Tracy, and was more than startled during recent visits to the courthouse and two other historic locations to discover that the stories of the nation's heritage had been sterilized of Christian references.
His entire research compilation is available online.
"Having done some research (before the trip), I absolutely was not expecting to hear those remarks," which, he told WND, simply "denied history."
So he's written to the Supreme Court, and several other groups, asking them to restore the historic Christian influences to their information, and he's documented his research to explain to those interested what the history is and how it's been subverted.
"I would like to see the record rectified and the proper Christian and Judeo-Christian depictions taught in these places," he told WND.
He was most disturbed by what appears to be revisionism in the presentations given to visitors at the Supreme Court. There, he said, his tour guide was describing the marble frieze directly above the justices' bench.
"Between the images of the people depicting the Majesty of the Law and Power of Government, there is a tablet with ten Roman numerals, the first five down the left side and the last five down the right. This tablet represents the first ten amendments of the Bill of Rights," she said.
The ten what? was DuBord's thought.
Unwilling to be confrontational, he went home and started some research.
One official Supreme Court document, he found, cited a letter from sculptor Adolph A. Weinman that said the "pylon" carved with Roman numerals I to X "symbolizes the first ten amendments to the Constitution." But the letter was anomalous; it didn't have a number of certifying marks that were typical of others.
So he continued looking and after calling in some assistance in his hunt for evidence, he found a 1975 official U.S. Supreme Court Handbook, prepared under the direction of Mark Cannon, administrative assistant to the chief justice. It said, "Directly above the Bench are two central figures, depicting Majesty of the Law and Power of Government. Between them is a tableau of the Ten Commandments…"
Further research produced information that in 1987 the building was designated a National Historic Landmark, and came under control of the U.S. Department of the Interior, and under the new management the handbook was rewritten in 1988. The Ten Commandments reference was left out of that edition, and nothing replaced it.
The next reference found said only the frieze "symbolizes early written laws" and then in 1999, the reference first appeared to that depiction being the "Ten Amendments to the Bill of Rights."
"The more I got into it (his research), the more I saw Christianity had been abandoned from history," he told WND.
When he asked, his recent tour guide denied there were any Ten Commandments representations in the Supreme Court building, he said.
One who was not surprised by the circumstances, however, was Judge Roy Moore, a WND columnist and the former chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. He was removed from office on a federal judge's order because he refused to remove a depiction of the Ten Commandments from the Alabama courthouse.
"They've distorted history to come up with their own version of things," he told WND. What such changes do, he said, "is divorce ourselves from an understanding of where our rights come from."
Without rights coming from God, he noted, government "assumes control over everything, including what you think."
"Why would they say the Ten Commandments weren't there? They had to come up with something. I could see the progressive disappearance of the word 'commandment' from their literature," said DuBord.
He had just returned from a trip to Turkey, where ancient Ephesus is.
"The tour guide was Muslim, and went on to say, with all respect to all of you, I need to say something to you about the Apostle Paul. ... And he went into an apologetic of Paul's teachings."
"He told us, 'These things happened here,'" DuBord said.
But then to return to the U.S. and find Christianity edited from history left him almost speechless.
"I thought, we started as a Christian nation, and we can't even get this here."
DeBord also noted that during his research of the "Weinman letter," he found another memorial in Washington, "The Oscar Solomon Memorial," noting the accomplishments of the first Jew to serve in a president's cabinet. It's on 14th Street between Pennsylvania and Constitution avenues.
It also was designed by Weinman, and like the Supreme Court image, depicts a human figure leaning on the same table with Roman numerals just as the East Wall Frieze.
But this time, an artist's letter confirms the tablets represent the Ten Commandments.
"Would Weinman have sculpted two identical tablets, in the same city, each with the Roman numerals I through V on one side and VI through X on the other, but with totally different identities?" DuBord wondered. "It seems very unlikely."
The current information office at the Supreme Court declined to talk on the record with WND when asked about Ten Commandments representations on the building, referring questioners to the website.
There, a document does indicate "Moses" is one of various lawgivers portrayed in the friezes, but the site doesn't mention "Ten Commandments." It does mention the "Ten Amendments."
DuBord said he knew of other representations, such as the lower part of the inside of each of the oak doors where people enter the inner Court Chamber, where two tablets carry Roman numerals I-V and VI-X.
But DuBord's tour guide said those – too – were the Ten Amendments.
He then asked, "If there are no other depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments on the building except on the South Wall Frieze in the U.S. Supreme Court, then what about on the east side of the building where Moses is the central figure among others, holding both tablets of the Ten Commandments, one in each arm?"
"Her response shocked me as much as the guide inside the Court chamber. 'There is no depiction of Moses and the Ten Commandments like that on the U.S. Supreme Court,'" DuBord said he was told.
He asked if there were any pictures of the representation, and she pulled one out.
"Her eyes widened in surprise. There was Moses in photo and description as the central figure, holding the Ten Commandments (tablets), one in each hand," DuBord wrote.
Although there are six depictions of Moses and-or the Ten Commandments at the Supreme Court, the tour guides had been trained to admit to only the one on Moses, he said.
One doesn't have to be Christian, or endorse Christianity, to recognize its influence in history, he said.
"I am … respectfully requesting that the complete educational history regarding the depictions of Moses and The Ten Commandments be rediscovered and retaught to U.S. Supreme Court guides and to the public in the U.S. Supreme Court Building," he suggested in a letter to the court.
DuBord grew up without religion, but during seven years of academic study at Bethany University and Fuller Theological Seminary accepted that the claims of Christianity are true.
He's served in various prison, drug and alcohol rehab ministries and worked as a youth pastor and associate pastor before assuming his duties in Lake Almanor.
His messages can be downloaded at www.iTunes.com, by typing in "almanor" or "dubord."
And another!
Nancee
Then that it exactly what we will keep praying for!!! :-)
Nancee
BUMP!!!
AMEN!!!
Nancee
Past time. Wayyyy past time.
Nancee
Not sure. I think she's highly neurotic.
Link to DuBord's article. aka "Unruh article."
There are links to both of the articles now under discussion.
In post #48 you said: You're confused. Nobody's claiming that Moses's tablet contains the Bill of Rights. ... but the author's conspiracy theory concerns the East Frieze. ... *That's* the tablet the author is writing about, *not* Moses's tablet.
From the WND article...When he asked, his recent tour guide denied there were any Ten Commandments representations in the Supreme Court building, he said.
He then asked, "If there are no other depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments on the building except on the South Wall Frieze in the U.S. Supreme Court, then what about on the east side of the building where Moses is the central figure among others, holding both tablets of the Ten Commandments, one in each arm?"
"Her response shocked me as much as the guide inside the Court chamber. 'There is no depiction of Moses and the Ten Commandments like that on the U.S. Supreme Court,'" DuBord said he was told.
There are two separate incidents of denial that there were any other depictions of Moses holding the Ten Commandments cited in the WND article.
From the DuBord article...After the U.S. Supreme Court guide described the figures on that frieze, including Moses, she asked if there were any questions. I raised my hand and asked, “Are there any other depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments in or on the U.S. Supreme Court.
snip
There was no hesitation to the guide’s response to my question of whether there were any other depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments. Her answer was simply and unequivocally, “No.”
My last inquiry for the personnel at the Information Booth of the U.S. Supreme Court was this: “If there are no other depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments on the building except on the South Wall Frieze in the U.S. Supreme Court, then what about on the east side of the building where Moses is the central figure among others, holding both tablets of the Ten Commandments, one in each arm?” Her response shocked me as much as the guide inside the Court chamber. She simply and confidently told me, “There is no depiction of Moses and the Ten Commandments like that on the U.S. Supreme Court.” I looked at her bewildered and used my body to describe the position in which Moses was holding the Ten Commandments. She again responded, “No, sir, there is nothing like that here.”
There are the same two incidents of denial as in the WND article. The author is definitely writing about much more than just the East Frieze inside the SC chambers as he says, in both articles, that they not only deny that the tablets on the doors are the Ten Commandments they deny that any other depiction of Moses with the TCs (other than the South Wall Frieze) exist at or on the SC.
You flatly said that the author's "conspiracy theory" ('report' to normal people) was about the East Frieze and not Moses' tablets. That is flatly and clearly wrong.
Agreed, but I never left. America is just another country. Many kingdoms and countries have risen and fallen. Ours will also. When you are saved, you have died to this world and are alive in the next. Our great commission is to evangelize the world. We will all die sooner or later unless He comes first. If you are saved you are prepared to die. There is no promise of tomorrow. I love America as much as anyone, but it will burn like the rest of them. I would like to make it last, but it is as doomed as Iraq. Non belief is non belief. Besides, God promises that it will get worse before He returns. Think of how Peter felt when Jesus told him that John had work to do, but that Peter would taste the same cup as Jesus. All apostles were murdered save John, and he was imprisoned. Why would we expect any different treatment?
America is just one more example of how God works. The Jews turned away from God and spent 490 years in slavery. We have only existed for 230 years. President Bush is probably the best believer we have had in decades, maybe centuries, yet you see how he is treated. The disease of sin has taken root in America and she is dieing. I remember when Pat Robertson said 9/11 happened because of sin in America and he was chastised from everywhere. Can God use Pharaoh to chastise His children? We've murdered 40 million babies since the '60's and homosexuals are kissing on prime time TV. The president of the US committed adultery and most likely rape, and was re elected, and even today draws cheering crowds. There is a reason we won WWII and lost Viet Nam. It wasn't the military, it was the people. We've lost 3000 men in the Iraq war and people want to give up and get back to their porn and gangsta rap. In WWII, we lost 6000 or more in one day. The enemy seeks to kill and destroy, and we can't wait for it. We have had plenty of time to repent. I think we gave God His answer Nov. 7th. My choices to choose from for 2008 are Hillary and Guliani? Do you believe a strong military is what wins wars? When a mushroom cloud rises over America, are we going to blame Bush or ourselves. If you've ever read about catching Benedict Arnold, Washington said it had to be God's providence that allowed him to be caught. If the message had gotten through, America would have lost the war.
I'm saved, but a country can only repent in a fixed time. It may be too late. Even New Yorkers have forgotten 9/11. People even went to church for a couple of weeks. How many do today? We seem to believe that because there isn't a flash of lightning and a clap of thunder when we commit sin, we got away with it. The debt is great and the bill is coming.
Thanks for answering.
Nancee
The "free exercise" part of the first amendment has been essentially as ignored as the third amendment.
My goodness! Look at all those Peters [obelisks] there in Rome. They do love their Peters [obelisks], and all of them seem to have come originally from Egypt. I wonder if there is any connection between those Peters [obelisks] and the Egyptian legend of Osiris, Isis and Horus that the Romans also imported from the land of Pharoah?
"We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
I took this quotation directly from the following source:
AMERICA'S God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, p. 411. I have now cross referenced this to the following:
The Myth of Separation (Aledo, TX; WallBuilder Press, 1999), p. 101
You wrote the following:
"I haven't heard that one, but it doesn't sound like Madison..."
I suppose I wonder why it doesn't sound like him when I consider the following:
1) He was known to have regularly led his household in the observance of family devotions;
2) He was an adamant defender of religious liberty;
3) He studied for the ministry before he took up the study of law;
4) He was Home-schooled as a child;
5) He also stated, on February 24, 1813, in a message to Congress,:
"The Government of Great Britain had already introduced into her commerce during the war a system which, at once violating the rights of other nations and resting on a mass of forgery and perjury unknown to other times, was making an unfortunate progress in undermining those principles of morality and religion which are the best foundation of national happiness...The general tendency of these demoralizing and disorganizing contrivances will be reprobated by the civilized and Christian world."
Besides being a great statesman, James Madison was a godly man. Why, then are you so sure that the quotation I initially placed on this thread and attributed to him, is a "bogus" quote; i.e., less that a "genuine" quote? Besides all of the above, I sincerely believe that his mindset as revealed in these and many other quotations, is not inconsistent with the mentality of all of his peers. Prior to, during and after the Revolution, these great men and women all wrote and made statements similar to these.
I meant no affront to you or to anyone else, and I don't really understand what seems to me a pretty intense level of defensiveness.
At any rate I thank you for keeping me on my toes.
Nancee
AMEN!! I would only add the phrase: "and conducts himself"!!
Nancee
Amen!
AMEN!!!
Nancee
Here is one of the concerns expressed by Thomas Jefferson about the judiciary:
"The Constitution is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please."*
He knew exactly waht he was talking about; didn't he?
Nancee
* Jefferson Writings, p. 1426
So do I, which is why I sent all three of my children to private school.!!!
I'm with you for sure. If I could have homeschooled my children, I would have.
Nancee
BUMP!!!
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