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To: qman
"Israel will not sit by and wait"

Israel is sitting by and waiting.

"they will strike first reguardless"

They have not stuck anything, and stopped the Lebanon war over trivial losses and a few European appeasers having their shorts in a bunch.

"I do not believe Iran will get the bomb by making it themselves"

They are not installing 3000 centrifuges and building several nuclear reactors for their health. Nor for electricity. The former takes an industrial commitment in the tens of billions of dollars and years of lead time. Which we have given them - the IAEA caught them hiding work 4 years ago now and they have not faced the first consequence for any of it. Our money is paying for all of it through the higher oil prices their saber rattling causes. Meanwhile Russia has continued work on the Bushner reactor and they have also worked on another etc. They don't need to force anyone, everyone is only too happy to sell them stuff, to take the US down a peg. The EU insisted we do nothing except offer them goodies to stop, we offered and they turned it all down. We demanded sanctions and Russia and China said no. EU was willing to have sanctions until the Lebanon war, but since it they have dropped the idea of anything more than a few travel restrictions.

"Unlike us the Irealis will not hesitate to use thier Bomb"

They are in fact hesitating. Or rather, they do not show the slightest sign they will do anything serious about it.

"if thier future may depend on it."

Their future does depend on it. But they just sit there.

In short you are delusional about the imaginary excess resolve of Israel. It doesn't have any.

Nobody is going to come riding over the hill (or down out of the clouds) to save us. If we let them, and we are, Iran will get nuclear weapons and the world will just sit and watch. And the result will be that the war on terror will last a generation and in all likelihood will end in nuclear war.

Denial about all of this is the leading cause of such developments in the first place. You are in denial. Your specific form of it consists of passing the buck. There are a hundred forms of it, from just not paying attention to sunny optimism about deterrence to belief that somebody else will do something to hope for revolution in Iran to hope against all evidence that Iran will accept some "deal", etc.

The operative reality is very simple - political flak over Iraq has made the potential costs of stopping Iran high enough no one is willing to contemplate paying it, and Iran knows this. The much higher costs of letting them get nuclear weapons are off in an uncertain future and nobody pays remotely sufficient attention to them because of it. Which they also know and count on.

And it is working. It will go on working until we get off our freaking backsides. Since the American people just voted to sit on their coaches and pretend it will all go away, that will not be any time soon. Iran is winning.

I do not have to like any of this to see it. I simply refuse to cloud my sight or judgment with transparently empty hopes.

439 posted on 11/13/2006 5:45:11 AM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

I am afraid I have to agree with you assessment 100%. Iran is the true winner here, not Al Qaida. People are forgetting that. Al Qaida could not possibly take over Iraq, if we bug out, but Iran and her puppet Syria, are in position to do just that. When Iraq goes, so will the whole Persian Gulf.


470 posted on 11/13/2006 10:24:44 AM PST by attiladhun2 (Islam is a despotism so vile that it would warm the heart of Orwell's Big Brother)
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To: JasonC

It appears you are correct, that it looks that way presently, but things change. Governments Change. The Olmert government is not up to the job, it proved that with it's fleckles inept attack on Hamas last summer, and I believe that it can not stand much longer. Thier approval rating are in the tank and they will have new elections, i predict in the early spring.

Bush can no longer make a ligitimate arguement that the UN could work.
He lost the Congress because he either could not end the carnage in Iraq or he could not effectively explain it's ligitimate continueation.
Isreal has proven they are up to the chalenge when push come to shove, just not lately.
Let me only say I respect your opinion, and respectfully disagree, but if you are infact correct "May God Help Us All' for we are indeed headed for WWIII and it will be a nuclear conflagration that few will survive.


490 posted on 11/15/2006 9:36:27 PM PST by qman
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