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Time to say Mr. Rumsfeld, your services no longer needed?

Posted on 11/07/2006 10:04:17 PM PST by meandog

Okay history fans, if Bush is to be compared to Lincoln then maybe he ought to do what the embattled Lincoln did to first War Secretary Simon Cameron in 1862 when his Congress was under fire: Accept Rumsfeld's resignation. Supposedly, the Don of the Pentagon offered it on two occasions, according to the source himself and it is apparent that a change in the tactics of fighting a losing war are now needed. Rumsfeld went against the advice of sound judgement from generals such as Shenseki and others who urged him to invade with at least as many boots on the ground (600,000) as was required in Gulf War I. Ever the arrogant, he ignored them and came with only 120,000--the result was widespread looting, possible WMDs being shipped to places such as Syria and the beginnings of sectarian violence. With 600,000 we had a chance to employ the proven military doctrine of overwhelming force. Now, the opportunity is gone just like the majority we once had in Congress. And, while the president is at it, he might also consider what Lincoln did to Hannibal Hamlin.


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: dummy; pitchforkers; rummy; rumsfeld; savagesupporters
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To: HelloooClareece
Rumsfeld had to rebuild and modernize an almost broken military (thanks to Clinton) while fighting 2 major wars and he has done a tremendous job.

Well, you and I agree that he had to rebuild and modernize after Clinton at least and did a good job...but in fighting the two major wars he's a failure. Again, I'm reminded of something Lincoln said when some in his Cabinet were itching to tweak the nose of Britain after Queen Victoria's government complained about stopping and boarding English ships carrying Confederate agents during the Civil War: "One war at a time, please gentlemen!"

101 posted on 11/07/2006 11:19:11 PM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: kinoxi
You honestly think that Rumsfeld should resign?

Yep!
What has he done wrong?
He allowed himself to become the lightening rod for all that is wrong in Iraq...I repeat, it's not that he hasn't done a good job in rebuilding the military he got after Clinton, but it is that the strategy he employed in fighting the war just cost us a permanent majority .

102 posted on 11/07/2006 11:23:27 PM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: meandog
You blame Rumsfeld for this. The War must be fought. The fact that you are too stupid to understand this basic point is disturbing to me. I ask once again, what is your plan?
103 posted on 11/07/2006 11:26:54 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: waterlootruck
'So rumsfeld resigns, then what, cut and run?'

I'd say the odds are far greater today than yesterday.

No matter what the media and dem's say tonight, the bad guys KNOW they have a better chance now than before.
The bad guys worked hard to make sure that the news would encourage just this outcome....

Beyond that I'm not posting/responding for awhile, I'm having a 1975 moment that might last awhile.

104 posted on 11/07/2006 11:29:32 PM PST by norton
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To: meandog

Oh, I'm sorry, you don't get a vote on that.


105 posted on 11/07/2006 11:30:33 PM PST by McGavin999 (Republicans take out our trash, Democrats re-elect theirs)
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To: kinoxi

I outlined it...why don't you quit with the name calling and read it.


106 posted on 11/07/2006 11:31:43 PM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: meandog

President Bush has already said Rummy stays. End of discussion.


107 posted on 11/07/2006 11:31:48 PM PST by balch3
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Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: meandog

My brother in law just returned from a year there and said to me "I'll never understand people who think we are losing in Iraq and Afghanistan".

Don't you get that they are not wars but individual battles in the war on terror? The fact is, we have lost less men in Iraq in 3 1/2 years than we did in a single day during other conflicts.

We have also won every face-off there we have encountered.

Why do you think they are failures? Because the mainstream media or chicken little dems or Bill Kristol told you so?


109 posted on 11/07/2006 11:32:07 PM PST by HelloooClareece ("We make war that we may live in peace". Aristotle)
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To: HelloooClareece

I too have relatives who've returned...one of them came back in a coffin last year.


110 posted on 11/07/2006 11:33:06 PM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: waterlootruck
Frankly, I am truly impressed with our Military, these guys have stuff we could have only dreamed of when I was in. Hell, I was using cat gut suture and loading my own needles in surgery. I was just waiting to see an old glass syringe and reusable needles, that is where we were. And we bought quite a few surgical instruments from Sears and Roebuck for our Orthopedic department! We had no MONEY to buy what we needed! We were broke!

Concur, I respect our military but not all of their civilian leaders.

111 posted on 11/07/2006 11:34:42 PM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: meandog
I outlined it...why don't you quit with the name calling and read it.

Here it is.
Well, its something I picked up from a Marine colonel recently... 1. Instead of dismantling the entire Iraqi Bath army as we did to rebuild it, we should have done what Gen. Patton did with Wermach Nazis after WWII: Have the ones who are willing recant their oath to Saddam and swear it to their country, keep them in place to run the infrastructure. In such a way one maintains their pride and gains their loyalty. 2. Use overwhelming force (a proven American military doctrine that works every time) to beat down the resistance. 3. Seek out good leaders and reward them with American military education and know how to better their country. 4. Begin a program of immediate reconciliation for those who denounce violence. 5. Finally, ensure there are no humiliating instances like Abu Graib.
113 posted on 11/07/2006 11:36:34 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: meandog

Dem talking points you F****** weasel.


114 posted on 11/07/2006 11:37:14 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: meandog
Rumsfeld went against the advice of sound judgement from generals such as Shenseki and others who urged him to invade with at least as many boots on the ground (600,000) as was required in Gulf War I.

Yep.

And look where it got us.

115 posted on 11/07/2006 11:37:33 PM PST by Penner
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To: meandog

Extra troops meant extra deaths. His program was a success. The failure was in trying to establish a democracy. This was Bush's fault. Rumsfeld did a great job.


116 posted on 11/07/2006 11:38:03 PM PST by Hop A Long Cassidy
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: kinoxi
Dem talking points you F****** weasel.

Have a nice night, kinoxi...I truly hope its better than the one I'm having after watching the election returns! BTW, you're now on permanent ignore!

118 posted on 11/07/2006 11:42:17 PM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: Terpfen
Your endorsement of Shinseki is misguided at best.

Amen. We no longer have a "Desert Storm" sized military. Putting 500,000 (or even 300,000) "boots on the ground" for any length of time would involve expanding the Army, not to mention straining military families to the breaking point. That (and the fact that most of our casualties early on were among the support troops it takes to keep the war fighters fighting, as many as 10 supporters to one fighter) is the reason why Eric Shinseki's plan (and McCain's current plan, for that matter) were/are unworkable, unless we're going to radically expand the size to the military (and reconsider the draft in the process).

119 posted on 11/07/2006 11:43:19 PM PST by pawdoggie
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To: meandog

Nice response. You started this thread with your asinine statements. You have a good night as well.


120 posted on 11/07/2006 11:43:58 PM PST by kinoxi
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