Posted on 11/01/2006 6:26:07 PM PST by Swordmaker
Bump! Have to assume this judge was not a Clinton appointee.
The only conspiracy theory stupider than TWA800 is that Bush blew up the WTC.
Also, the destruction of a Thai Airways International 737-4D7 is believed to have also been a spontaneous ignition of the center fuel tank.
And for those who don't know, the design of the center fuel tank on many older models of the 737 and 747 are identical except in size.
No they don't look here
What did the eye witnesses see? What brought down TWA800?
There is only one problem with Ray Lahr's missile dream.
There is no penetration from outside the airplane into the internal structure where the explosion began.
What Lahr and felon Sanders all the other frauds are arguing as their a priori case is something that the physical evidence conclusively proved was impossible.
As far as the "missile eyewitnesses," I have read the entire docket, all of the supporting documentation, and all of the witness statements and interview reports, as well as the expert analysis of the witness material. All of the claims of "missile witnesses" materially misrepresent what that body of information actually is, and materially misrepresent the utility of witnesses in air crash investigation.
The TWA 800 conspiracy buffs are the exact same kind of buffoon that believes "Loose Change." In some cases, they are the exact same buffoons.
Along with having read the entire material, which took me literally weeks, I have the necessary background to understand it. I have experience in aviation, a good grasp of aerospace engineering, and extensive experience with military weapons and high explosives. I do not believe any of the missile-conspiracy paranoids (including Lahr) can match my background in this odd combination of areas.
Lahr and the others who have been sponging off the bereaved family members they have bamboozled, ought to be ashamed of themselves. I love that Lahr whines in his release about the expense his conspiracy hobby has imposed on him. What does he care? He bums the money off widows and orphans anyway.
Bill Clinton was a lousy president; but if you want to hang a murder on him, start with Task Force Ranger in Somalia. This accident wasn't murder, it was something that had happened before. Unfortunately the FBI's half-assed investigation and institutional craving for publicity hammered the idea that this was a crime or terror act into many people. It wasn't.
The blast was not a missile because a missile cannot destroy a plane without leaving a mark. It was not a bomb because high-explosive leaves unmistakeable traces on metal that aren't erased by a subsequent crash and fire. These traces are clear as day on metal recovered from PA103. There are no such traces on metal recovered from TWA800. Bombs and missiles cannot destroy aircraft without leaving physical evidence.
Yeah, yeah... I'm a government shill... yeah. How unreasonable, not believing in a conspiracy theory that is belied by the physical evidence, when anyone can cherry-pick a few out of 720-odd witness statements to support the magical conspiracy theory.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
PS. If Lahr gets the information he asks for, what then? The famous "CIA animation" was used during an intermediate press conference. It played no part in the final conclusions of the Board (and the Board's experts and parties to the investigation). It doesn't change the physical evidence which shows that Lahr is a fraud. -C18F
There is ONE HUGE hole in the muslim terrorist theory. The purpose of terrorism is to CREATE TERROR. If a terrorist actually did this, there would be a claim so that the event would cause terror!
There is ONE HUGE hole in the muslim terrorist theory. The purpose of terrorism is to CREATE TERROR. If a terrorist actually did this, there would be a claim so that the event would cause terror!
Bill Clinton was a lousy president; but if you want to hang a murder on him, start with Task Force Ranger in Somalia. This accident wasn't murder, it was something that had happened before. Unfortunately the FBI's half-assed investigation and institutional craving for publicity hammered the idea that this was a crime or terror act into many people. It wasn't.
Please expand. BTW, I find it laughable that people seem to believe in big coverups by numerous people from different agencies. Things would leak like the Valdez if there was anything to leak.
And could not be re-created under the most liberal test conditions.
Your assumption is about as valid as this ridiculous conspiracy theory:
Matz was appointed to the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California by President Clinton in March 1998 on the recommendation of California Senator Barbara Boxer, who argued at the time that Matz had "a deep commitment to justice."
You can read all about it on this website, which is obviously another group in on the conspiracy:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1401774/posts
I do not agree.
The U.S. Navy denied, for months, it even had ships in the area that night. Then, the Navy finally admitted that there were a number of ships in the area which steamed away from the area just after the downing of TWA 800.
I have two questions:
1. Why would the Navy deny it had ships present?
2. Why would ships of the U.S. Navy depart the scene of an incredible air disaster when it could have at least assisted with the aftermath?
The ships were, of course, ordered to depart the scene to hide their role in the airliner's crash.
I subscribe to the theory there was a secret missile test to see if a missile intercept could distinguish between friend or foe in the busy airspace. It failed and a horrible tragedy resulted. The White House ordered the cover-up of that August fiasco as Clinton was running for reelection in November and would surely have been blamed for the reckless murder of innocents aboard TWA 800 at his authorizing the secret test.
I have done a lot of research on TWA 800.
The FBI completely commandeered the investigation of the crash in violation of federal law which requires the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) to conduct such investigations.
The laughable animation purporting to show the noseless aircraft climbing is a violation of all laws of physics and no serious scientist could agree with the conclusions of the presentation.
The computer animation was created by the CIA, of all the craziest agencies to get involved! It was not NASA or another real scientific agency that created the preposterous animation being foisted upon the public.
Why would the CIA be enlisted to make a scientific case if there was true science, and not propaganda, behind the explanation?
It's not entirely impossible. But it's hard to see how they could manage to shut that many people up.
Really?! Please elaborate on that detail. What ships and what area?
There have been occasional terrorist incidents where no one has taken credit. It still tends to spread fear, as I think TWA 800 succeeded in doing.
Lots of good news coming out on a variety of subjects...
btt
btt
"In fact I should amend my position a bit..." No, you should amend it a lot. There have been several tank explosions, most on Boeings. As an ATC, I was working one of them when he blew up. Happy32, KC-135 of Ill ANG, about 40 miles NW of O'Hare in Dec '81. Killed a lot of Weekend warriors, cockpit came down next to a school that was having a Christmas concert.
About 720 different things. Read the 302s. Then read the analysis. Some "saw" things that subsequent geometric analysis show they couldn't have seen.
This is not unusual. It is pretty common, given that human memory is constructed on the fly.
What brought down TWA800?
A fuel-air explosion in the CWFT.
In sum, the evidence for a fuel-air explosion is overwhelming, certainly enough to convince any reasonable jury. There's no way you'll get anywhere with the OJ Jury of the the TWA800 conspiracy fan club, though. Ray Lahr wants to prove that his old airline is innocent. Criminal Jim Sanders and his criminal wife want their convictions overturned (He's the guy that insists on being called an "aviation professional," and won't admit he was actually a stewardess). Jack Cashill wants to sell books. All of them want money from the widows and orphans of Flight 800. Ghouls, the damned lot of them, and lying ghouls at that.
Finally someone mentioned the late CDR Donaldson (sp?) -- first, I don't believe being a serviceman or naval officer makes you infallible. Case in point, John F'in Kerry. Case two, Jack Murtha. Need I continue? Second, he's the poor confused soul that put his cigaret out in Jet A and concluded that it won't burn, let alone explode. It just goes to show that you can fly planes for a whole career and not understand 'em. (Do you know what's going on when you turn the key of your car? Do you need to?).
You see, FUEL DOES NOT BURN. Yeah, you heard me right. FUEL-AIR MIXTURE BURNS. It needs to be at the right temperature and the right pressure -- and the right mixture. There is an ideal or stoichiometric mixture, and there is a range a bit to one side or another where combustion is possible. But if the mixture is too lean (too much air, not enough fuel) or too rich (too much fuel, too little air), then flame can't get going. That's what was happening to Donaldson, and the poor old sailor didn't twig to it. (Don't try this at home, kids -- he was lucky, as the mixture right above the surface of an open container of Jet A can be close to stoichiometric).
The TWA 800 disaster resulted in many changes. Airline pilots now check and calculate the inflammability of the mixture in their empty tanks so that such a disaster will never happen again. In addition to these operational changes, over 40 Airworthiness Directives (like recalls for cars, sort of) have resulted from the accident, mandating changes to transport-category aircraft. For example, Kapton wiring was replaced fleet-wide at a cost of billions of dollars. Finally, research on newer and more cost-effective ways to inert fuel tanks is bearing fruit.
The last and possibly best outcome of the TWA800 accident, is that the NTSB and FBI hammered out a memorandum of understanding so that they will work together better in the future. Hopefully we will never again have this kind of circus, which basically created all of these conspiracy theories with its unprofessionalism, leaks, and general careless methods (during the FBI phase). FBI and NTSB investigation processes differ hugely, because NTSB tries only to find fact, while FBI tries to find just enough facts to try someone on. For example, the FBI uses the 302 rather than what every other pro does (audio or video record interviews) so that the agent can spin things toward the desired goal, whether it is nailing somebody or preventing information from coming out in FOIA or discovery. This Hoover-era technique may be a good law enforcement tool -- that's not my in my areas of expertise -- but it's a horrible investigative tool, as the ease with which the statements in the 302s have been twisted by men of ill will shows. Compare to the similar 911 conspiracists, who keep getting caught when they try to twist the meaning of witness statements, because verbatim audio and transcripts exist.
I get mad about this case. I do because (1) a lot of scumbags are making a living on it and (2) they're doing it by slandering a wide swath of people who not only are innocent of the various charges, but who are providing or have provided incredibly loyal and righteous service to the public, for damned little reward. Ray Lahr, for instance, has accused the Navy, the CIA, and the NTSB of, basically, murdering almost 300 people and then covering it up. (Now he's backed down from the Navy thing and he's blaming jihadis, but originally he named the Navy). And what's his evidence? A bunch of lies and fraud.
Hey, go ahead, send him money. It might be entertaining to see who he accuses next.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
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