Reliability problems with XS Sight Systems 24/7 Express Sights (VANITY)

The Night-Sight Chronicles ^ | 11/1/2006 | Joe Brower

[Joe Brower]

Reliability problems with XS Sight Systems 24/7 Express Sights

Howdy, shooters,

Sorry for the vanity, but I wanted to relate to you RKIs the continual troubles that I’ve experienced with the 24/7 “large dot” Express Sights that I installed on my Sig P229 earlier this year, get your opinions, and also ask what other tritium night-sights you might have to recommend.

Here’s a link to the product in case you’re wondering what exactly I’m describing: http://www.xssights.com/store/handgun.html

To make a long story short, I have now had three of the rear sights go dead on me; that is, the tritium capsule leaks until it no longer glows. The front sight has been fine the whole while, but three dead rear sights in ten months’ time seems a bit out of control, especially seeing as how these are for a combat pistol. If they can’t stand up being in the safe, I’d hate to see how they perform in the field.

The first set was installed by a pistolsmith, and the rear sight went dark within a month of installation. When I called XS Sight Systems, they were very helpful and immediately sent a replacement, which I myself meticulously installed. This second rear sight went dark after about six months, in which time I probably ran about 500 rounds through the pistol on three separate occasions. So I got another replacement, which I again installed. Now, two months’ later, this one has gone dark too, making it three-for-three. Has anyone else experienced continued problems like this? Are there similar reliability issues with their other offerings, which may indicate a pattern?

It is worthy to mention that when I called for the third set, the guy I spoke to went on and on about how “the Sig P229 has a strange dovetail” and how that made installations difficult, and a couple other caveats, to which I asked “Then why do you sell the things?”, which he didn’t really want to answer. So at this point, confidence is low. A shame, really, because I really like the product itself -- the configuration of these sights works better for me than anything else I’ve tried.

Which leads me to my final question: Can anyone recommend any other night-sights that have a similar configuration? Lacking that, how about any others? Any particular brands you’d recommend? I’d appreciate the input.

Thanks,

Joe B.

P.S.: As an aside, when I got my first set for the Sig I also got a set for my Glock 23. That also had the rear sight go dark on that gun after about eight months, and has since been replaced. Again, not very impressive.

[TC Rider]

I know it's not what you want to hear, but why have tritium on the rear at all? If you've practiced with the gun the rear site should index close enough for you to put that green dot on a target.

Currently, my only weapon with tritiums is my S&W Mdl 24 revolver. I use it for road trips and night matches. It has a set of Meprolights, so far no problems. (you might ask why I have tritiums on the rear, they came as a set, what the hell)

[Joe Brower]

"There are LOTS and LOTS of good smiths that can fix the problem."

Can you recommend some? I don't know of any in my local area. I'm sure they exist, but the few "smiths" around here that I _do_ know of I wouldn't trust to put a new spring in a Daisy Red Ryder.

I do wonder about the suggestions about doing without the illum on the rear sight; I'll have to try that out. Not thinking outside the box on that one -- never occurred to me to give that a try. So try it I will.

On a final note, though, I do have to say that my expectations of a combat-pistol sight would be that my install would not be enough to affect them to the point of such quick failure. Which makes me question the overall usefulness of them in light of their apparent fragility.

[archy]

To make a long story short, I have now had three of the rear sights go dead on me; that is, the tritium capsule leaks until it no longer glows.

I've not tried the XS units, so I won't comment on them particularly, nor on their use on a SIG 229, with which I don't have much experience. [I do with the SIG 226 and SIG-Sauer P220/ Browning DA .45 auto versions.] But I've noted the same problem with other tritium-vial night sights, including the supposedly 10-year life Nite-Sites by Julio Santiago, one of the first commercial offerings on the market. My first set *went dark* in around 11 months [Browning GP application, front and rear] and were cheerfully replaced on failure. The second set went at around eight months.

I've had the same problem with the front Tritium rifle sight used with the British L1A1 FAL-type rifle with the large-diameter aperture *Hythe* rear sight. The Brits went through about three different versions of the front sight unit before finally chucking the idea and going to the replacable Tritium capsule in the SUIT scope instead. Interestingly, the manual for the glow-in-the-dark front night sights includes warnings not to touch or ingest [!] the broken bits if the sight vial is broken, so the Brits/Commonwealth likely had some cracks/breakage problems along these lines, too. But in any event, I've seen L1A1 front sights dated just a year or two old that exhibited absolutely no luminosity whatsoever. Happily, the large aperture rear sight works well for me as a *ghost ring,* whether the front post is lit or not.

I've known a couple of revolver shooters who've had the things on their sixguns, and had the fairly long life expected and advertised, so recoil vibration associated with the semiauto functioning cycle may be a part of the problem. Or it may just be that nowadays there are more semiautos around, and that they accordingly exhibit more problems with the replacement accessories.

One other thought: a pal of mine swears by the MeproLights on his USP, and has gone through two sets in around a dozen years, having switched to new ones for Y2K as a possible preventitive measure. His thoughts on the matter are varied,but include the interesting theory that muzzle blast from other weapons alongside may cause more damage to Tritium vials than that from the parent weapon- which makes sense. Accordingly, when someone shoots alongside him at a range, back into his holster or range box his USP goes.

[Ranxerox]

Here is a link to a sight adjustment tool that will fit a SIG P229, it costs less than the SIG tool, but works very well.

http://www.topglock.com/catalog/tools.htm

[Ranxerox]

...SIG tool, but works very well.

That should be: ...and works very well.

Sheesh.

[Gideon Reader]

I do not know your "area", but,...I DO know that the master of sights is Wayne Novak of Novak Sights,
1206 30th Street,
Parkersburg, WV
26101
Tel:(304)428-2676.
Website: http://www.novaksights.com

I would not expect to speak with Wayne personally but his team of experts surely will be able to assist you. He has a pretty rapid turnaround time and will not cause a second mortgage to have to be taken. They can tell you the correct shipping procedures, as well.

Continued "goofing around" by yourself with the trit sight problem is cheaper but not better.
Do not use shade tree smiths on your weapons unless you do not take your weapons seriously.
Locals may be great but also may be horrendous gun butchers.
If you use such latter folks please give them a nice Series 70 Colt 1911 to abuse. Then I will buy it from you at a very much reduced price for a base gun for full house conversion. ;-)

Do it right. It is cheaper in the long run.

Gideon Reader

[Joe Brower]

" Do it right. It is cheaper in the long run."

Agreed. And thanks!

[Gideon Reader]

I hate to belabor the story but,....
Look Joe, a real "combat pistol" is any handgun in the hands of a well trained and professional, practiced shooter.
A dolled up shooter with all the whistles and bells and overhead steam operated floormats in the hands of an untrained or unpracticed person is not a combat handgun. An excellent tool is of course a value to a carpenter and may make his job a bit easier, but the tool does not make the carpenter a skilled carpenter.

I handgun that is of quality manufacture and reliability is fine. Setting up a sight improvement is also good but it will NOT make you a better shot.

My handguns that are set up with XS BigDot trits are trit on the front ONLY! This is for rapid low/reduced light conditions. Not for night shooting. If it is so dark you need to line up three tritium dots to shoot, you probably cannot identify your target sufficiently to fire. Remember, each bullet has someone's personal injury attorney welded to it.

For range in the evening (IDPA, etc.)low light; the front trits are sufficient. But it is your decision to make.
All black rear fixed and a Gold Bead is my personal fav.
Gold bead will give you enough pickup without the trit lamps difficulty you are experiencing.
And have some fun for Gawd's sake,

Gideon Reader

[Joe Brower]

I agree with everything you state and have myself given the same opinions to many shooters over the years.

I only got into night sights earlier this year, so I've been stumbling around a bit. My usual approach. I am considering just restoring the rear sight to the factory original and calling it a day. I think that would actually work fine. I hate asking XS Sight Systems for yet another rear sight when I feel I goofed the last couple up.

As for having fun, I am having fun! I love learning new stuff.

Thanks again.

[ExSoldier]

Although the original install on the Sig was done using a special installation tool when the gunsmith did it....

Ahhhh the operative phrase....when the gunsmith did it.... I never tinker with stuff like this where my life could depend on the outcome.

[Joe Brower]

"I never tinker with stuff like this where my life could depend on the outcome."

Which is why I gave it to a highly experienced pistolsmith the first time around, after which the rear sight went dark in less than a month...

[Joe Brower]

WELL GUESS WHAT!

I just got off the phone with Blake at XS Sight Systems, explained my troubles, and he told me that if I send them the slide off my P229, they will have their own gunsmith install a new rear sight. All I have to do is send it to them, and they will take care of the rest. Pretty darned good of them, if I'm any judge!

So off she goes, if not tomorrow, then Monday. I told him if it doesn't work out after this, I won't bug them again, but rather I will just reinstall the factory rear, which I tested this morning with the big tritium dot left on the front, and this "front only illum" arrangement does work well.

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

[Lurker]

I've had Trijicons on my Commander for the last couple of years. I had Triji do the work.

Right out of the box they were just about dead on at 21 feet. I'm satisfied with the product and with the service.

If you get no satisfaction from your current vendor I would recommend Trijicon highly.

L

[Joe Brower]

I wanted to let you good folks know the final disposition of my troubles with the XS Sights on my Sig P229. To make a long story short, I sent my slide off on 11/7 and got it back on 11/20, all ready to go with a nice writeup letter from the gunsmith, a fellow named Bo Wallace. All in all, it looks much nicer than the job I did $;-), and we'll see how well it holds up after a few hundred rounds at the range; evidently, the G-forces of the slide while firing have something to do with these failures.

By the way, it appears that XS Sight Systems offers this gunsmithing service for about $75 or so. If I had known that, I would have done that from the get-go.

Stay well,

[Ranxerox]

Thanks for the follow up. I have XS ghost ring sights on my Winchester 94 and it is good to know they are willing to stand behind their product.

Good luck with the new sights, I hope things work out in your favor!

[Ranxerox]

Thanks for the follow up. I have XS ghost ring sights on my Winchester 94 and it is good to know they are willing to stand behind their product.

Good luck with the new sights, I hope things work out in your favor!

[Ranxerox]

Whoops, double tap.

[Joe Brower]

"Whoops, double tap."

And with a lever-action, no less. $;-)