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Day Of The Diesel
Forbes ^ | 10/29/2006 | Dan Lienert

Posted on 10/31/2006 5:16:24 AM PST by Red Badger

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To: Red Badger
I gonna dress up as Diesel Fuel Pump...

Unit injector, common rail, or rotary?

A more appropriate title for the article might be "Decade of the Diesel". Definitely a good time to be in diesel if one has done their homework...

41 posted on 10/31/2006 6:26:08 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Liberalism: replacing backbones with wishbones.)
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To: Red Badger

Of course, there's another nasty little truth here that's being ignored - much like hybrids, there's an often fairly hefty price premium to paid up front for a diesel engine, particularly modern TDI-type engines. These engines are very efficient and durable, but they cost significantly more to make than gasoline engines of comparable performance. If you keep cars a really long time, or really pile the miles on, this may pay for itself. However, with diesel fuel typically costing more per gallon than gasoline these days, the cost recovery is going to be slow.

I also wonder whether developments in direct-injection, stratified charge gasoline engines may overtake the diesel. Although still immature, in theory these engines could have all the benefits of diesel engines (high compression ratios, and thus torque, ability to run at very high A/F ratios, etc) and none of the shortcomings, in particular the particulate issue.

Make no mistake, there is still considerable room for improvement in internal combustion engine, the alternatives to which (mostly electric with power from fuel cells or batteries) still have a long way to go to compete on range, performance, and cost effectiveness. Sure, they could build an electric car today with a decent range and good performance. But the battery pack would cost as much as several (like 5 to 10) cars.


42 posted on 10/31/2006 6:28:52 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: Jack of all Trades

I meant the pump at the convenience store....


43 posted on 10/31/2006 6:29:36 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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To: Red Badger
The new EPA rules KILLED passenger diesels, it didn't encourage them!

Passenger diesels in Europe outnumber passenger diesels in the U.S. by at least 10:1 because the emissions rules are more lax there.

44 posted on 10/31/2006 6:29:49 AM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Yo-Yo

Yeah, that's why Honda, Toyota and Nissan have been pouring billions of yen into diesel research. GM and FORD are really smart to keep their money in gasoline power....../(s)


45 posted on 10/31/2006 6:41:02 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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To: Red Badger

Seems to me that diesel was touted as the fuel of the future quite a few years ago. Of course, then, diesel fuel was half the price of premium.

Seem strange to replay this same old tune, when diesel (here in Kalifornia) is the same price as premium.


46 posted on 10/31/2006 6:42:14 AM PST by wizr (Live life with a Passion!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Actually, I see estimates all over the place, including 140K for petrodiesel and 130K for B100.
47 posted on 10/31/2006 6:43:55 AM PST by B Knotts (Newt '08!)
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To: wizr

So, let me check your math here...it's not economical to pay roughly 5-10% more for fuel, when you get 30-40% better fuel economy. Is that right?


48 posted on 10/31/2006 6:46:37 AM PST by B Knotts (Newt '08!)
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To: Red Badger
new federal regulations went into effect mandating that vehicles use "clean" diesel fuel--a new type of diesel with a 97% reduction in sulfur content. ... This means cleaner air, cleaner engines and advanced emission-control devices are on the way. It also means automakers are planning to bring more diesels to the U.S.

I keep seeing this but, I have yet to see it explained. Why do stricter federal regulations lead to higher availability of diesels? Seems like the new regs would make the cars and the fuel more expensive. Is it simply that the mfrs. believe the new regs will make diesel cars more acceptable to consumers?

49 posted on 10/31/2006 6:49:16 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
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To: wizr

Same tune with a new band. Diesel technology has come a long way since then. GM's sorry effort at shoehorning a commercial diesel into a passenger car in the 80's was doomed before it started. Dirty fuel, lack of convenient supply and lack of engineering refinements, left a bad taste in the mouth of consumers. EPA and other sources were also at fault, but to a lesser extent. Now that "GW" is the new buzzword, diesel looks much better, both technologically and from a consumer "green" standpoint. Less NO, CO, and CO2 from diesel, more mileage, longer wear, bio-recylcable sources, fewer moving parts, and on and on. Diesel has been cleaned up, brushed off and shined for a new generation of drivers. My daughter, now 20, has no idea of the "old" problems with diesel. She sees only a good new "environmentally friendlier" technology to come.........


50 posted on 10/31/2006 6:49:56 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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To: Red Badger
They're putting billions into research to meet the new emissions laws, not on basic diesel research. DiamlerChrysler, BMW, Volkswagan, and others have PULLED their 2007 diesel offerings because they can't meet the new emissions standards, but are still selling strong elsewhere in the world.

GM and Ford offer diesel TRUCKS which don't have to meet the same emissions requirements of the cars.

Mercedes has a new urea injection system to lower emissions, and will equip some Jeep and Mercedes products with them in 2007-8. Volkswagon will also offer a new diesel Tourage in 2008, but pulled the 2007 model due to emissions problems.

And GM is investing in new truck diesel technology, but not passenger cars.

51 posted on 10/31/2006 6:51:08 AM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: newgeezer
....the mfrs. believe the new regs will make diesel cars more acceptable to consumers?

whether they "believe" it or not, is irrelevant. What is "driving" it, ironically, is the worldwide belief in "Global Warming" and reduction of greenhouse gasses. While not perfect, diesel does do just that. Better mileage and less pollution at the same time, with less dollars/euros spent on research for a cleaner "gasoline" burner.............Japanese auto mfrs are already to flood our market with diesels, and once again, GM/FORD will be caught flatfooted...........

52 posted on 10/31/2006 6:55:14 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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To: B Knotts
So, let me check your math here...it's not economical to pay roughly 5-10% more for fuel, when you get 30-40% better fuel economy. Is that right?

I have a hard time explaining that to my wife, too........

53 posted on 10/31/2006 6:56:29 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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To: Yo-Yo
And GM is investing in new truck diesel technology, but not passenger cars.

I can see GM doing the same thing it did in the 80's all over again. Taking a truck/commercial engine and trying to retrofit it into a passenger car.......

54 posted on 10/31/2006 7:01:16 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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To: Red Badger

well if its a choice between supporting a farmer or some nut job from the middle east...call me crazy but im picking the farmer...


55 posted on 10/31/2006 7:01:35 AM PST by Irishguy (How do ya LIKE THOSE APPLES!!!!)
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To: B Knotts

30 API gravity + .50 sulfur should equal 138,000. Lower sulfur should actually be a bit higher. If the BTUs are lower, its because the product is lighter...up to 35 or 38 Gravity.


56 posted on 10/31/2006 7:02:28 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: newgeezer
Why do stricter federal regulations lead to higher availability of diesels?

It brings US diesel fuel specifications in line with Europe, notably sulphur content. The diesels imported before the change were actually an earlier generation of motor.

57 posted on 10/31/2006 7:07:03 AM PST by gogeo (Irony is not one of Islam's core competencies (thx Pharmboy))
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To: Red Badger

Anyone know what the avg. cetane rating appears to be in the new low-sulpher diesel?


58 posted on 10/31/2006 7:10:30 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (In God we trust. All others we monitor.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Min US DOT is 40 cetane.


59 posted on 10/31/2006 7:12:01 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: Yo-Yo

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1724111/posts


60 posted on 10/31/2006 7:13:08 AM PST by Red Badger (ECCLESIASTES 10 The heart of the wise inclines to the RIGHT, but the heart of the fool to the LEFT.)
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