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When the central government responds with a high level political visit to a militia that has just taken over a city, leveled police stations and killed whomever they could in a tribal payback, then it is no longer just parts that are a mess. The entire goal of this war , after deposing the tyrant, was to impose democracy and install an elected government. That government is treating with a militia as though it was a legitimate political organization, even though it has consistently acted militarily.

I understand DBM media tactics. I understand that parts of Iraq function. But it is obvious from this that Sadr is being treated with honor by the Iraqi government.

Yesterday, one of our generals stated that the military obeys the sovereign government of Iraq. As long as that government is siding with terrorists, then the government, and by extension, the country, is a mess.

I haven't had all my coffee and I have a heavy work day, so I may be overreacting and this may not be an accurate report. But the Iraqi President made the US give up one of Sadr's commanders, so I think the report is basically accurate.

Here's the only rephrasing I can make: despite pockets of Iraq functioning more or less normally, the country is being governed by partisans of the Sadr Brigades and that is pushing it quickly into being a mess. Combine that with our own military stating that the insurgent militias are breaking into smaller cells that have partisan payback as their goal and I don't know what else to call it.

As for speaking to Iraqis, I am living in the Midwestern US, so, of course, I haven't. But, I am quickly beginning to believe that, if I could, I would need a whole lot more context and language than I could possibly acquire in order to parse whatever they had to say.

However, if you have had discussions with Iraqis and if you understand those conversations within their context, language, religion and culture, I would appreciate having this episode explained as something other than a mess.

I do not advocate leaving Iraq. However, I do advocate our government and military being able to actually function in that country and from what I have read lately, we cannot. We cannot bomb them into submission, as we have agreed that their own government must take responsibility. So, once again, we are operating in a hostile and unclear environment which impedes our goals.

If it isn't a mess, then what is it? A "challenging situation"?

"The entire goal of this war , after deposing the tyrant, was to impose democracy and install an elected government. That government is treating with a militia as though it was a legitimate political organization, even though it has consistently acted militarily."

Alas, this precedent was set in Lebanon.

"But it is obvious from this that Sadr is being treated with honor by the Iraqi government."

Yes, now why? The initial plan in 2004 was to defang him by disarmament and watch him slip into obscurity as more popular leaders overwhelm him. Sadr remains a marginal figure, but since february of this year has been engaging in violence via his mahdi army.
Just as hezbollah in Lebanon was popularly elected enough to get parts of the Govt, the sadrists too have a voice in the govt via the fact that they got some votes.

What *should* happen is that Iraqis should find militias so unacceptable that al-Sadr becomes a pariah and is rejected by the Iraqi body politic. That has not happened, and the reason why is a large part of the reason Iraq is not in better shape: The culture is highly distrustful, sectarian, willing to accept and follow extremists, but most of all - after 30 years of totalitarian rule, the only institutions that had credibility and indepedence from the baathist rulers was the mosques ... and so we have excessive clerical influence.

I was thinking/hoping that both in lebanon and in iraq this influence would fade away through the action of democratic rule. in both cases, the key variable is the buildup of the central govts armed forces to replace militias.

I always look here to get the latest on Iraqi view of things:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

" If it isn't a mess, then what is it? A "challenging situation"? "

Yes, it is a challenging situation!